jakee 1,261 #251 May 31, 2006 I'll come back to this later, but not now. What I will say is I'd like to look into the you Thuc dates a litle more closely. A quick search only found references in very strongly christian websites, none that I'd trust as an academic resource. Also the continuing references to 8 surviving manuscripts have me wondering - The text of the Peloponnesion War is divided into 8 books - coincidence, misunderstanding, I don't know. Do you not think it sounds like some weird kind of fruit? Peloponnesian. Maybe its just me.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #252 May 31, 2006 Of course. One can't be Christian and an academic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #253 May 31, 2006 .Quote Dismiss the New Testament as rubbish but accept Thucydides as very accurate?That was a point I made in the other thread. They accept the interpreted writings of antiquity as truth , without question, but absolutly refuse to accept the Bible. I know it's the message that they reject, and not the authenticity of the writing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,261 #254 May 31, 2006 Didn't say that. (though given the parrot fashion regurgitation of the same info on all the sites I glanced at I certainly wouldn't call them academics) I would just like to see it somewhere other than an evangelical website using it for a very specific agenda. Believe it or not I wouldn't take at face value anything I read about the bible on a website called something like 'Fake Jesus - the brainwashed society' either.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #255 May 31, 2006 Quote.Quote Dismiss the New Testament as rubbish but accept Thucydides as very accurate?That was a point I made in the other thread. They accept the interpreted writings of antiquity as truth , without question, but absolutly refuse to accept the Bible. I know it's the message that they reject, and not the authenticity of the writing. I forget who wrote this but "Man will believe anything as long as it's not in the Bible." Or something like that. It's fitting. Added: Just remembered...Napoleon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #256 May 31, 2006 I was kidding on the last one. Well... I guess the one before the last one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #257 May 31, 2006 Quote 1. Peter - crucified 2. Andrew - crucified 3. Matthew - the sword 4. John - natural 5. James, son of Alphaeus - crucified 6. Philip - crucified 7. Simon - crucified 8. Thaddaeus - killed by arrows 9. James, brother of Jesus - stoned 10. Thomas - spear thrust 11. Bartholomew - crucified 12. James, son of Zebedee - the sword In addition: 1. Barnabas - burned to death 2. Mark - dragged to death 3. James (the less) - Clubbed to death 4. Paul - beheaded 5. Luke - hanged Amazing! They were trying to destroy the message from the beginning, and haven't gotten the job done yet! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #258 May 31, 2006 Quoteand the stories of a chap called Jesus, no one has found Noahs ark, the Holy Grail, the Ark of the Covenant, etc etc etc. Are you kidding. I've seen it on film. The Nazis had it, and Indiana Jones got it back! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #259 May 31, 2006 QuoteAmazing! They were trying to destroy the message from the beginning, and haven't gotten the job done yet! This statement borders on eloquence, Royd! "'The grass withers and the flowers fall away. But the word of the Lord will last forever.'" And that word is the gospel that was preached to you." (Peter to the Jewish Christians in Asia Minor) (1 Peter 1:25)Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #260 May 31, 2006 Most stories say that Bartholomew was flayed alive then crucified in Albanopolis, Armenia, although accounts differ. Some say he was beheaded. Maybe they did all three to him. In the vast majority of accounts, esp. also in paintings and statuaries, esp. in Rome, he's portrayed holding his flayed skin and the knife used by his assailants to skin him. I've been to the Church of St. Bart. on a little island in the Tiber river in Rome, just south of the Vatican. The altar is supported by porphyry sarcophagus of sorts holding the remains of the martyred apostle. (see poor quality attached pic) In the Apse of the church, the wall behind the altar, is a painting depicting the gruesome scene of Bart being skinned alive. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #261 May 31, 2006 more pics of buddy bart 1. statue of bartholomew in the Lateran Basilica in Rome, one of the 4 main Basilica's there. You'll see he's holding the blade and draped over his arm is his flayed skin. 2. better pic of his tomb in the church in the Tiber. You can also see some detail of the pic in the Apse... the scene of his skinning... on the right, he's bound to a post or something, arms up, and there's a darker skinned man on his left about to cut him. Just a barbaric scene to be contemplating in a church. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #262 May 31, 2006 so you are unwilling to recognize that ALL of the fundamental myths contained in Christianity existed in other Religions BEFORE yours was created by "Paul"? i expect so, as you are also equally unwilling to even Study any religion other than your own..... why is that? are you afraid of what you might find? do you think its coincidence that so many religions (including your own) have prohibitions against such discussion/discovery? i'll give you a hint... Education and Enlightenment reduces Influence.. Lack of Influence equals lack of Control.. Religions care about Control... God on the other hand would have no need to.... the primary reason you should look to ALL of Man's religions is to separate the teachings of Man from those of God...not an easy task to be sure, particularly when you absolutely firmly believe that your “Apple Pie” Religion is the One True Way... even if one were to show you a Pumpkin pie and illustrate the process by which it is made (so strikingly similar to that of your Apple) would you still claim it was "false Pie" and did not share the greater principle applied to all Pie? What would change your mind? To be honest, is it even open for more wisdom? or would it be water poured in the sand as your 'cup' is full already?? ignorance really should be painful.. then few would willingly remain so....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #263 May 31, 2006 QuoteOf course. One can't be Christian and an objective academic. fixed it for you... now its the truest thing you've posted yet...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #264 May 31, 2006 hiya Rans! glad to see ya posting. Was thinking about you the other week, drove by a Gen. Dyn. plant somewhere in Texas. hope you're well... that's all I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mockingbird 0 #265 May 31, 2006 Quoteso you are unwilling to recognize that ALL of the fundamental myths contained in Christianity existed in other Religions BEFORE yours was created by "Paul"? "Unwilling to recognize"? Why do you say that? Similar myths don't downplay the actual events they resemble. That's comparing apples to oranges---- made-up stories to real people and events. I noticed you put Paul's name in quotation marks. Are you now gonna' say that there was no such person as Paul? Quotei expect so, as you are also equally unwilling to even Study any religion other than your own..... why is that? are you afraid of what you might find? do you think its coincidence that so many religions (including your own) have prohibitions against such discussion/discovery? How do you know what I'm willing or unwilling to study? Where does Christianity prohibit learning about religions? I'd think it would be helpful to be familiar with other religions if one wants to talk to their adherents about the freedom and forgiveness that Christ offers them in contrast to their own religion. But as far as receiving any personal benefit from the study of other religions... why try? Quotei'll give you a hint... Education and Enlightenment reduces Influence.. Lack of Influence equals lack of Control.. Religions care about Control... God on the other hand would have no need to.... I agree with you to a certain degree and in the case of some religions. But this truly has no bearing on whether or not I "study other religions." I'll take a leap in logic (since you can, perhaps you'll allow me to as well) and guess that you are going to hold yourself up as an example of being truly enlightened because you study all kinds of religions and have had the wisdom to separate the wheat from the chaff? Oh, well, yeah, that wouldn't be much of a leap, as you practically say as much in the next paragraph. Quotethe primary reason you should look to ALL of Man's religions is to separate the teachings of Man from those of God...not an easy task to be sure, particularly when you absolutely firmly believe that your “Apple Pie” Religion is the One True Way... Please tell me how you determine what "the teachings of God" are. Quoteeven if one were to show you a Pumpkin pie and illustrate the process by which it is made (so strikingly similar to that of your Apple) would you still claim it was "false Pie" and did not share the greater principle applied to all Pie? A teaching that is "similar" to the teaching of Christ doesn't make it true. It would only be an imitation. Only one can be true. QuoteWhat would change your mind? To be honest, is it even open for more wisdom? or would it be water poured in the sand as your 'cup' is full already?? One can't have too much wisdom. But, the wisdom I want is the wisdom found in Christ. If Christ is mine (and He is) and I am Christ's (and I am), whatever spiritual wisdom I need, I have in Christ. And I discover it through my closeness and my friendship with Him... and through His words. These verses sum it up... and I'm sure you'll read them because you're not afraid of learning from all religions, even Christianity, right? 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. 26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,261 #266 May 31, 2006 Very nice photos. One thing I will say about the catholic church is they've employed some flipping amazing architects/ sculptors over the years.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #267 May 31, 2006 Amazing! They were trying to destroy the message from the beginning, and haven't gotten the job done yet! -------------------------------------------------------- QuoteThis statement borders on eloquence, Royd!Thanks! It was probably inspired by the wine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #268 May 31, 2006 Quotei expect so, as you are also equally unwilling to even Study any religion other than your own..... why is that? are you afraid of what you might find?I'm sure that taking a course on religion from some liberal,God- hating professor, who will probably give a pass to all religions except Christianity, is where I would want to find the truth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #269 May 31, 2006 Quotewhen you absolutely firmly believe that your “Apple Pie” Religion is the One True Way... even if one were to show you a Pumpkin pie and illustrate the process by which it is made (so strikingly similar to that of your Apple) would you still claim it was "false Pie" and did not share the greater principle applied to all Pie? We're talking apples and pumpkins here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #270 June 9, 2006 more PROOF that jesus is a myth, the bible itself is a myth, even the "apostle paul" was a fictitious character.we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #271 June 9, 2006 Quotemore PROOF that jesus is a myth, the bible itself is a myth, even the "apostle paul" was a fictitious character. I think I can speak for everyone here on dropzone: The mindless repetition is BORING US! First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #272 June 9, 2006 QuoteI think I can speak for everyone here on dropzone: The mindless repetition is BORING US! Looks like something is eating him up. He might need an exorcism. Out with you, demon! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #273 June 9, 2006 how people ignorantly believe a myth to be true, is it! here is more PROOF that bible is a crock.we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #274 June 21, 2006 god's word, my arse the last thing that a person of faith can stand is the truth--Nietzche here is irrefutable proof. all that any BRAIN-DEAD "believer" can do is open their eyes to the lies or continue to live in absolute and total denial of the TRUTHwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pajarito 0 #275 June 22, 2006 Quotethe last thing that a person of faith can stand is the truth--Nietzche Man will believe anything, as long as it's not in the Bible. --Napoleon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
