Should child molesters be killed?

[pirana 0]

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. . . such as the UCLA for defending MANBLA.

OK, that's just funny. I know it's a typo, but it's still funny .

Wendy W.

Somebody has NCAA Bracket Fever.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[kelpdiver 2]

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I guess at this stage I have to ask is, how would you suggest we stop the proliferation pornographic material that involves minors? Do we just accept that there is nothing we can do about it? I am not interested in hearing about what we should not do, nor do I need annecdotes about falsely accused people. Given that there is a large demand by many sick people to download this material thus supporting that industry, how would you suggest we combat the problem? Or should we just ignore it?

You don't solve it by taking a shotgun to a wall of potential suspects and not worrying if you hit some innocents.

A shitty solution is not preferable to none at all.

You seem very content to ignore the difficulty in proving intent on possession cases. I'm not sure why. You are very confident in the ability of the courts to deal with this problem. History has shown that to be quite misguided.

It's not really clear to me how big a problem this really is. If people in some far off country are abusing their children to sell to our perverts, is there harm that we can do something about?

[pirana 0]

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>Executions are more expensive than life in prison..

nonsense, executions are cheap. all the litigation and interim time is expensive

You stole my reply. An execution costs one bullet and a few seconds of a decent rifleman's time.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Lindsey 0]

Predators should be exterminated.

But there are all KINDS of predators. Some predators kill people. Some predators rape people. Some predators rape children. Some predators steal the life savings of old people. How are you deciding which group of predatory people should be executed?

I'm personally okay with people who rape AND kill other people being executed....because the victim is dead. It's still not a logical response on my part. It's emotional....because I don't like to think of that person being alive when his victim is dead.

So you don't like to think of a person who rapes children being alive....what about a person who fondles children? How about the person who has "consensual" sex with a 15 y/o? a 12 y/o? What about a person who rapes an adult? Or serially rapes adults? How do you make those decisions?

Remember Ronald Gene Simmons who killed his family on Christmas day in 1987? One of his victims was a very good friend of mine. I'm glad he was executed, because I like knowing that he's just GONE. Doesn't give any justice to my friend Renata, though, or her husband Billy or her son Trae....he'd be grown now.

A child who is molested still has a life. Her/his life is altered, but most of us have things that alter our lives. It's horrible that children are abused, but I just can't put that crime in the "execute the bastard" category, except for in the instances in which the child dies.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[billvon 2,476]

>An execution costs one bullet and a few seconds of a decent
>rifleman's time.

And imprisonment costs nothing. The prisoner spends the rest of his days working for his keep.

Of course, in the real world, neither is true. In the real world, imprisonment is cheaper than execution.

[kelpdiver 2]

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You can start by directing you energy towards those who we know are guilty of helping Pedophiles, such as the UCLA for defending MANBLA.

OK, that's just funny. I know it's a typo, but it's still funny .

well, if it were football season, we'd know that UCLA couldn't possibly defend NAMBLA, but since it's March, the opposite seems to be true.

Damn you bruins. And get your own damn fight song.

U - C - L - A - EAT - MY - SHORTS

[pirana 0]

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>That would be a waste of money.

Executions are more expensive than life in prison. Want to stop wasting money? Stop capital punishment. (Or if you are willing to pay for it, then keep it.)

>Predators should be exterminated. They are human only in
>physical form.

Oh, nonsense. Humans are good and bad. For every Mother Theresa there's a disgusting criminal. They are both still every bit as human as you are. Claiming "they're not human" is the path to take if you want to turn into the people you despise.

Here's another angle. Let all the folks who think it is preferrable to lock someone up for the rest of their life foot the bill.

I have no qualms about the death penalty being used, as long as the standards are well thought out. I don't think that makes me anything like the people I think should be put down, or that there is any danger I will become like them.

With DNA testing and all the other top notch tools avaiable to forensics experts these days, I'm confident we could come up with standards that would be hard to object to on anything but supposedly moral grounds.

As far as being human in physical form only - I am quite serious. My definition of humanity is more than just having physical roots in the same gene pool. It means recognizing and abiding by societal expectations. The spiritual being is as much a part of being human as the physical being. I would accept that there may be some finer points open to interpretation, but I don't think anyone could say that they did not know that raping or killing children was against those expectations.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Richards 0]

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You seem very content to ignore the difficulty in proving intent on possession cases. I'm not sure why.

I have never said that I was OK with innocent people being convicted. I of course would expect all the same rules regarding burden of proof to apply to this. I merely want the ones who have clearly demonstrated intent to face stricter penalties.

Many people who have been caught with whole libraries of this stuff have been given no jail time at all. In many cases they simply are given a fine, community service, and probation. Subsequently people are willing to risk it.

It's not really clear to me how big a problem this really is. If people in some far off country are abusing their children to sell to our perverts, is there harm that we can do something about?***

I can't help but feel that people sexually abusing and torturing little children to profit by selling to people who get off on entertaining these sick fantasies is a big problem. Again, we can have effective laws with real penalties for those who have been convicted of posessing and distributing the stuff. Furthermore we can track back to those other countries and cooperate with their authorities, to help apprehend the individuals distributing it. We have done this with the overseas sex trade, I am sure we could cooperate with other nations to share info and prosecute both sellers and buyers of the material.

I don't see why raising the penalties for people who have been convicted of this crime is always equated to lowering the burden of proof. The same safegaurds should apply, and if the existing safegaurds are insufficient then address that as a seperate issue. Why should people who purposely buy this stuff not be penalised heavily?

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[billvon 2,476]

>Here's another angle. Let all the folks who think it is preferrable to
>lock someone up for the rest of their life foot the bill.

Fine with me. Life-in-prison supporters pay the prison bill, war supporters pay the war bill. And of course pro-death-penalty people pay all costs that have to do with that.

>My definition of humanity is more than just having physical roots
>in the same gene pool. It means recognizing and abiding by societal
> expectations.

Would you claim that Rosa Parks wasn't human? Richard Loving? Martin Luther King? The suffragettes? Many of our heroes get to be heroes by not abiding by societal expectations.

I suspect you meant "doing evil things that are outside societal expectations." But again, we claim that when done for good reasons such things are acceptable. Hence the need to not just shoot everyone in the head who does something like that; we send them to trial to determine what their motivation was and whether they are really guilty of the crime or not. And that is why it takes a long time. Justice isn't cheap; freedom isn't free.

[Richards 0]

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17 is hard to tell, but 9 is pretty obvious. having 179 gigs of child porn is hard to say "i didn't realize

This is exactly the point I have been trying (and obviously failing) to make all along.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Steel 0]

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You can start by directing you energy towards those who we know are guilty of helping Pedophiles, such as the UCLA for defending MANBLA.

OK, that's just funny. I know it's a typo, but it's still funny .

well, if it were football season, we'd know that UCLA couldn't possibly defend NAMBLA, but since it's March, the opposite seems to be true.

Damn you bruins. And get your own damn fight song.

U - C - L - A - EAT - MY - SHORTS

Ok all you comedians, obviously I meant ACLU, as in American Civil Liberties Union
,

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass.
Can't think of anything I need
No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound.
Nothing to eat, no books to read.

[kelpdiver 2]

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17 is hard to tell, but 9 is pretty obvious. having 179 gigs of child porn is hard to say "i didn't realize

This is exactly the point I have been trying (and obviously failing) to make all along.

So show me the proposed law that also makes the distinction. So far, doesn't exist. Instead we have a 'kill anyone associated with child porn' proposal.

It's very difficult to codify such distinctions. Billvon has very accurately shown you the problems.

As for the sex trade, it sure doesn't seem to have been solved. We can only do so much from within our borders. And we're not always welcomed to interfere elsewhere.

[pirana 0]

Yes, there would be some devilish details, but it's doable. And yes, I recognize there are all kinds of predators, and am open to having more than just killers executed. I'll start working on my list.

I really do not understand the objections to capital punishment. It does not appear that it's a sanctity-of-life matter for most people. To hold that up as the reason would mean a person object's to all killing in all places for all reasons. If anywhere near even half the population felt that way, we'd have no wars. There would simply be no support for it.

Other possible exceptions include abortion, euthenasia, suicide, etc. And if there are going to be exceptions, then the whole sanctity-of-life moral arguement goes out the window. Can't have it both ways - either life is sacred or it's not. That's how principles work. You can't sorta have integrity or sorta believe in the sanctity of life any more than you can be sorta pregnant.

So my take on most people who object on moral grounds is more that they don't like how it makes them feel for someone to be PUT to death versus being killed in a war or some other scenario. When the manner of death makes them feel icky, they claim moral high ground. When the manner of death does not upset their sensibilities, they suddenly get holes in their morals. Their moral no longer look like a principle but more resembles situational ethics.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[pirana 0]

[replyWould you claim that Rosa Parks wasn't human? Richard Loving? Martin Luther King? The suffragettes? Many of our heroes get to be heroes by not abiding by societal expectations.

I suspect you meant "doing evil things that are outside societal expectations." But again, we claim that when done for good reasons such things are acceptable. Hence the need to not just shoot everyone in the head who does something like that; we send them to trial to determine what their motivation was and whether they are really guilty of the crime or not.

[Richards 0]

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Instead we have a 'kill anyone associated with child porn' proposal.

Really? Where? This is the first I have heard of it.

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[pirana 0]

My standards for extermination would take into account the distinction between sitting in the "wrong" seat on the bus versus, say for instance, stalking and killing children.

I think the expenses part has been addressed. End the ridiculous parade of appeals. That's not justice. That's stalling.

For those objecting to capital punishment, I would turn the question around. What purpose is served by locking someone up permanently that can not be served by execution?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Lindsey 0]

It does not appear that it's a sanctity-of-life matter for most people.

I don't think that "sanctity" of life is the issue either. At least for me it's not. But there is a "value" of life issue. I value my life, though I don't consider it "sacred." I think people can do very, very bad things and still have a life that is of value. It's not a spiritual or moral issue in that sense. It's just that to take someone's very existence away, there's gotta be a damn good reason, imho. While child abuse (physical or sexual) is horrible, it's not enough to warrant execution, imho.

It, like so many other things, isn't black and white. Ya' know, we could go back to cutting off people's hands for stealing too....stealing is bad, after all.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[billvon 2,476]

>What purpose is served by locking someone up permanently that
>can not be served by execution?

Ability to correct an error. If the justice system is perfect then there is no need for that purpose. It is far from perfect now. So fix the justice system first; then you have a much better argument for capital punishment.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Instead we have a 'kill anyone associated with child porn' proposal.

Really? Where? This is the first I have heard of it.

it's the title of every posting.

[Casurf1978 0]

I dont want to debate the DP, but to me killing them is an easy way out. Throw them in jail with the general population. That is a a fate worse than death.