kelpdiver 2 #76 March 4, 2006 Quote The whole HOA argument isn't one I get either. While it's true that builders draft the original set of bylaws, bylaws aren't deed restrictions, and when the community is released by the developer, the homeowners can agree to change those restrictions. Everyone has a vote. the problem being that it requires a majority to support your property rights, and HOA participation is low, so there is great inertia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #77 March 4, 2006 QuoteQuote The whole HOA argument isn't one I get either. While it's true that builders draft the original set of bylaws, bylaws aren't deed restrictions, and when the community is released by the developer, the homeowners can agree to change those restrictions. Everyone has a vote. the problem being that it requires a majority to support your property rights, and HOA participation is low, so there is great inertia. Kinda sounds like a microcosm of the rest of the world to me. I guess my next question would be: why buy in a community where you don't like the rules? Which just brings us right back around one more time. I actually wouldn't mind living in a community of like-minded people--which, of course, presupposes that there are enough people who share my particular brand of crazy to make up an entire community. Not likely. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #78 March 4, 2006 QuoteI actually wouldn't mind living in a community of like-minded people--which, of course, presupposes that there are enough people who share my particular brand of crazy to make up an entire community. We could buy a duplex together. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #79 March 4, 2006 Well, what if you called it a "commune" ? I'm an ex-Catholic and you won't find me living in Ave Maria. But historically, America has had all kinds of religious community experiments. There's a Buddhist university and community somewhere up in Colorado, the Krishnas had a town in New Vrindaban, W. Virginia (not sure if they're still there anymore). The Rajneeshies briefly took over Antelope, OR and even renamed it Rajneeshpuram for a couple years before they fell apart at the seams. And there's been all kinds of Amish, Mennonite, Shaker, Hutterite, and Amana communities, not to mention the entire friggin' state of Utah.... Lots of whackos too, everybody from the Children of God and the Moonies to tim Leary's League for Spiritual Discovery (L.S.D., get it ?). And lest we ever forget David Koresh or Jim Jones, some of these communities come to bad ends. So this guy's a Catholic and wants to found a Catholic community, so what ? Like I said, I won't be living there. Las Vegas is the spiritual capital of the religion of pleasure and nobody gives a shit about them (another place I try to avoid, as it doesn't appeal to me). "Like minded citizens" ? Yeah, well the Bushes have always liked that sort of thing, nothing new there either. I dunno, what's the problem ? They're not going to MAKE anybody become Catholic, you won't have to BE a Catholic to live there. Looks like another chapter in America's interesting, if sometimes whacko history of religious experiments. Chances are it won't last as planeed for more than a few decades. Or it might become powerful like the Mormons. So who knows ? Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #80 March 4, 2006 Good post. See the diffence is it's Christians not Muslims, Hari Kristnas etc. We all know how threatening the Christians can be...trying to shove their religion down peoples throats and such. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #81 March 4, 2006 QuoteWe all know how threatening the Christians can be...trying to shove their religion down peoples throats and such. Actually, yes. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #82 March 4, 2006 QuoteIt's really not so much this -particular- housing development that bothers me so much, but rather the idea that ANY group of rich guys thinks they know how other people "ought" to be living their lives it has gone right over your head too quade... sheesh... this has nothing to do w/ tom, a rich guy, trying to dictate what others "ought" to be doing w/ their lives. it IS about Tom creating a culture where like-minded people CAN live a life in a certain culture that they want. And with HIS money HE can help create it for them. He isn't forcing anything on anybody. That is something you just don't get. Or don't WANT to get. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #83 March 4, 2006 QuoteWhat if the next town only allows families with women who don't work live there....or doesn't allow women to live there who choose to leave abusive relationships (because divorce is not acceptable)....How about communities where gays are only allowed in....or how about no blacks...or no whites....or only people in this or that militia....could go on and on. The comparison to the Taliban isn't far off, imho. I think that your comparison is a bit of a reach... They don't want to have any abortion clinics or strip clubs, and they don't want to have birth control or pornography sold in their stores. I didn't see anything in the article about restricting any human rights or telling people how they should live their lives, or even putting restrictions on who can and can't live there. Of course they can't make it illegal to use birth control, or to go to another town for an abortion, etc., but it doesn't sound like they are trying to make such things illegal. There are already towns where alcohol cannot be sold and towns that do no allow strip clubs, etc., so I don't see why there is a problem with this town. I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that he publicly stated it would be built on Roman Catholic principles, and that if he hadn't mentioned anything about religion then most people wouldn't have taken notice. But it doesn't sound like they are dictating anyone's religion or only accepting Catholics into their town (though I don't know why any non-Catholic would want to live there). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #84 March 4, 2006 QuoteIt's really not so much this -particular- housing development that bothers me so much, but rather the idea that ANY group of rich guys thinks they know how other people "ought" to be living their lives. What it means is that as time goes on, there will be few and fewer options for people of differing tastes and opinions and the only opinions that will be tolerated in a society will be the ones handed down by corporations. I see what you're saying, and I agree to an extent... But (fair or not) we already live in a world where money talks, and I think that corporations and groups of rich guys already have a pretty big say in how people ought to live their lives. I guess I'd rather see this guy start his own small town based on his principles than to see him using his money to support a more national political agenda. QuoteI watched him and his lawyer on ABC's "Good Morning America" today and they're backpeddling hard although they didn't deny they said what they said when they said it at the breakfast. Yeah, I only read the article that you posted and then several articles today about how he was backtracking what he said, so maybe that's why I don't see what all the concern is about. Everything he's saying now sounds legal and acceptable (to me). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4WayXena 0 #85 March 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteNo, just because you have a lot of money doesn't NOT mean you can actually rule over people's lives. So a rich guy buys a bunch of land and says people can live and work there if they abide by his strict rules. What's the problem again? Sounds like Walt Disney's original intention for EPCOT. Or Henry Ford's company living compound for all of his employees in Dearborn around 1910-25 which is now Greenfield Village and the Henry Ford Museum. Or sounds kind of like the Jamestown settlement in Guyana. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #86 March 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteNo, just because you have a lot of money doesn't NOT mean you can actually rule over people's lives. So a rich guy buys a bunch of land and says people can live and work there if they abide by his strict rules. What's the problem again? I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #87 March 4, 2006 Quote I guess my next question would be: why buy in a community where you don't like the rules? Which just brings us right back around one more time. large sections of CA have moved to have an HOA after it was found they tend to boost property values. They aren't really communities per say - this tract of housing will have an org and a CC&R, this next one will be a different one. It comes out at the same time you might do a pre inspection report. You can't really pick one out in advance. You just pray that the one for the house you want doesn't have something ridiculous, though even then you're not really safe as it's hard to identify in advance that you have wackos on the HOA committee. At least with this Catholic World you'd know exactly what you're were getting yourself into. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #88 March 4, 2006 Quotehttp://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/02/catholic.town.ap/index.html Un-be-f'in'-lievable . . . No, just because you have a lot of money doesn't NOT mean you can actually rule over people's lives. They're not rulling over peoples lives, they're setting up a community of like minded people, there's a big difference. You're free to not live there, or to drive out of town for your abortion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #89 March 4, 2006 I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that he publicly stated it would be built on Roman Catholic principles, and that if he hadn't mentioned anything about religion then most people wouldn't have taken notice. But it doesn't sound like they are dictating anyone's religion or only accepting Catholics into their town (though I don't know why any non-Catholic would want to live there). I prob'ly shouldn't post without reading more closely...lol...but I do it all the time. Peace~ linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #90 March 4, 2006 QuoteQuotehttp://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/02/catholic.town.ap/index.html Un-be-f'in'-lievable . . . No, just because you have a lot of money doesn't NOT mean you can actually rule over people's lives. They're not rulling over peoples lives, they're setting up a community of like minded people, there's a big difference. You're free to not live there, or to drive out of town for your abortion. *Golfclap* Yea!!! There are actually people here who actually are getting this! Bravo, Dorbie, Bravo! You win the prize for not being a knee-jerk reactionary to anything that smacks of religions! I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #91 March 4, 2006 QuoteWell, what if you called it a "commune" ? I wouldn't. I know what a commune is and this ain't one.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #92 March 4, 2006 QuoteQuoteWell, what if you called it a "commune" ? I wouldn't. I know what a commune is and this ain't one. but it IS clear you DON'T know what THIS is. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #93 March 4, 2006 QuoteI know what a commune is and this ain't one. I'm sad that you're not responding to any of main responses in this thread or explaining your position very well. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #94 March 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteI actually wouldn't mind living in a community of like-minded people--which, of course, presupposes that there are enough people who share my particular brand of crazy to make up an entire community. We could buy a duplex together. That would almost be worth braving the snow and ice. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #95 March 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteI actually wouldn't mind living in a community of like-minded people--which, of course, presupposes that there are enough people who share my particular brand of crazy to make up an entire community. We could buy a duplex together. That would almost be worth braving the snow and ice. rl can I come visit? i promise to keep my catholic hang ups locked up tight in my rosary case. promise. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #96 March 5, 2006 Quote I'm sad that you're not responding to any of main responses in this thread or explaining your position very well. Excuse me? It's my freekin' thread! I thought that my position was pretty clear from the start. I don't approve on the basis of rich people and corporations controlling people's lives and thinking they somehow know what utopia is. I didn't drink the kool-aid and I recall what happens to the people that do.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #97 March 5, 2006 QuoteQuote I'm sad that you're not responding to any of main responses in this thread or explaining your position very well. Excuse me? It's my freekin' thread! I thought that my position was pretty clear from the start. I don't approve on the basis of rich people and corporations controlling people's lives and thinking they somehow know what utopia is. Well, your original premise is that just because one has a lot of money doesn't mean one gets to be king. But that doesn't seem to be what's going on here. QuoteI didn't drink the kool-aid and I recall what happens to the people that do. You totally ignored the fact that there is a precedent. Actually, there is more than one, but Ocean Grove is familiar to me because I've spent time there. It's a peaceful little town, although if you're the partying sort, it's definitely not the place to be. Except for the common theme of religion, there's no comparison between Jim Jones and Guyana, and it's not much of an argument to imply that such a comparison exists. I wonder what all you objectors would say if some very wealthy skydiver built a community centered around an airport for the purpose of housing a bunch of skydivers all in one place. (I guess s/he would impose upon all the business owners the restriction that they must sell beer and on the cable company that one station must show skydiving movies and videos 24 hours a day.) rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #98 March 5, 2006 QuoteQuote I'm sad that you're not responding to any of main responses in this thread or explaining your position very well. Excuse me? It's my freekin' thread! I thought that my position was pretty clear from the start. I don't approve on the basis of rich people and corporations controlling people's lives and thinking they somehow know what utopia is. I didn't drink the kool-aid and I recall what happens to the people that do. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #99 March 5, 2006 QuoteQuote I'm sad that you're not responding to any of main responses in this thread or explaining your position very well. Excuse me? It's my freekin' thread! I don't know what it means that it's your thread. You posted the first post, but is that an ownership thing? Actually, nobless oblige and all, I think the originator of a thread has some responsibility to continue with it and shepherd the arguments that arise. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
micro 0 #100 March 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuote I'm sad that you're not responding to any of main responses in this thread or explaining your position very well. Excuse me? It's my freekin' thread! I don't know what it means that it's your thread. You posted the first post, but is that an ownership thing? Actually, nobless oblige and all, I think the originator of a thread has some responsibility to continue with it and shepherd the arguments that arise. .... which, if I might add, he's doing a piss-poor job at... c'mon quade, kool-aid? give me a break. Monaghan and friends are FAR from being a cult. Their religious beliefs are none other than Orthodox Catholicism, adhered to by hundred and hundreds of millions of people around the world. And all they want here is to build a community that has a much greater focus on what THEY think is important {GOD}, like old-world European communities, w/ the church in the middle of the town, as the center, the nucleus, the thing that draws the people together as one. And they want to EXCLUDE anythying -pornography, abortion, birth control, etc.,- that Orthodox Catholic believe to be detrimental to society. Now what the hell is wrong with that? These elements have slowly moved more and more into mainstream society, much to the dismay of Catholics and people of other religions (and even other people of conscience). Yet the mantra heretofore has been "don't like pornography? DON'T WATCH IT!" Well, why doesn't the same mantra fit here, Quade? Don't like what Monaghan is doing here, DON'T LIVE THERE! As a wee little reminder, you have NOT ONCE explained your absurd assertion that Monaghan -whom I know from experience to be the opposite- is some rich guy trying to control the lives of others. You CAN'T explain it, quade, b/c it's just not true. Is he rich? Undoubtedly. But I know for a fact that he has vowed as his life's mission to die a poor man, after giving away his fortunes helping to better society through the promotoin of faith, education, the alleviation of poverty, etc. I miss Lee. And JP. And Chris. And... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
