Riddle Me This, Batman...

[ExAFO 0]

Why do people respect someone who fucked up and became an addict and cleaned their act up more than someone who has never fucked up/fucked over their families & friends because of their selfish addiction?

Seems the former should be kept watched more than the latter. The latter should be held in higher esteem, for not having fucked a lot of things up for themselves and others.

Your Thoughts?

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[yamtx73 0]

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Why do people respect someone who fucked up and became an addict and cleaned their act up more than someone who has never fucked up/fucked over their families & friends because of their selfish addiction?

Seems the former should be kept watched more than the latter. The latter should be held in higher esteem, for not having fucked a lot of things up for themselves and others.

Your Thoughts?

Perhaps because they beat the addiction and straightened themselves out.

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

[AlexCrowley 0]

Because those that have been there and triumphed have lived and experienced far more than the person who never experienced anything and frown on those that do know.

Whats that saying about 'those that arrive safely at death...'?

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[ExAFO 0]

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Perhaps because they beat the addiction and straightened themselves out.

IMHO, That's crap. Substitute "Ex-Con" for "Addict" and watch the reactions change...

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[happythoughts 0]

Respect is probably the wrong word. I am pleased when someone overcomes a problem of any type. It is success over a problem, even if it is a self-inflicted problem.

People who color outside of the lines in any form get an odd form of jealousy. Life is a struggle. People who are responsible, tire of it and wish they could bail on it every once in a while.

People are jealous of the freedom and short-term fun, not the long-term problems that accumulate.

[yamtx73 0]

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Perhaps because they beat the addiction and straightened themselves out.

IMHO, That's crap. Substitute "Ex-Con" for "Addict" and watch the reactions change...

"IMHO" I like that phrase... you ask for opinions yet when I voice mine and it doesn't go along with yours then my opinion is "crap". If you don't like the answer perhaps you shouldn't ask the question... but then that's MHO...

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

[GTAVercetti 0]

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"IMHO" I like that phrase... you ask for opinions yet when I voice mine and it doesn't go along with yours then my opinion is "crap". If you don't like the answer perhaps you shouldn't ask the question... but then that's MHO...

That is quite good. In my own opinion of course.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

ExAFO, I completely 100% agree with you.


-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[unformed 0]

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Why do people respect someone who fucked up and became an addict and cleaned their act up more than someone who has never fucked up/fucked over their families & friends because of their selfish addiction?

Seems the former should be kept watched more than the latter. The latter should be held in higher esteem, for not having fucked a lot of things up for themselves and others.

Your Thoughts?

whoa, buddy. Just cuz you've fucked up and gone down a hole doesn't necessarily mean you've fucked over your friends and family.

and, what it means, is that person is now ten times stronger than what he would have been had he never done anything. I'm not condoning drug use/reckless for anybody, but the fwe who got caught up in it AND were able to pull themselves out and back together again have quite a bit going for them.

but never say that everybody who does hard drugs or does them often (relative to normal society) fucks over their friends and family. Some do, but definitely not all.

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[pirana 0]

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Because those that have been there and triumphed have lived and experienced far more than the person who never experienced anything and frown on those that do know.

Whats that saying about 'those that arrive safely at death...'?

IMHO (had to start there you know), it's the old saying about going over the edge and living to tell. I'd think the majority of this crowd would see it that way.

Not that planned skydives are anything like the destructive power of addiction to a substance, or that returning from that type of addiction is some sort of honor (that's probably the read that irritates people); but it is a place most people don't go.

Probably acknowledging that, along with the fact that most don't go there, and don't want to, would balance that false badge of honor perspective.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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Perhaps because they beat the addiction and straightened themselves out.

IMHO, That's crap. Substitute "Ex-Con" for "Addict" and watch the reactions change...

"IMHO" I like that phrase... you ask for opinions yet when I voice mine and it doesn't go along with yours then my opinion is "crap". If you don't like the answer perhaps you shouldn't ask the question... but then that's MHO...

Part of the whole point of opinions is that you get to hold YOUR OWN above reproach, and regard those of others as "crap."

What's hard to understand about that?


-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[GTAVercetti 0]

If you just want to post something such that when you get a response that you do not agree with, you respond with something so profound as "that's crap" why bother wasting the bandwidth?

Obviously, you were simply looking for validation of your own ideals and not actually seeking what others thought. If you don't post in such a way, you can get all the validation you need....

in your head.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[ExAFO 0]

Actually, I was expecting that very "badge of honor"-esque nonsense... And I still think it's crap.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Actually, I was expecting that very "badge of honor"-esque nonsense... And I still think it's crap.

And just as pointless.

But that is what SC is all about.

So welcome to the club!

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[unformed 0]

there's no badge of honor in fucking up ...
there's no badge of honor in going to hell

you are stronger when you make it back though

drugs/alcohol aren't the only thing that can take you there, war, depression, among other things can also take you there.

also, when one's come back, he/she isn't looking for validation from others ... the fact that they respect themselves much more is enough

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[Richards 0]

I don't think they are praising the act of becoming an addict so much as the act of overcoming the addiction. I am sure that reformed addicts are aware of how they have hurt their loved ones and will carry that guilt for a long time.

I feel that people are merely acknowledging that it must have seemed hopeless when the person was at rock bottom and that it must have taken incredible courage to tackle the problem.

An addict will feel so much self hatred that he/she may not want to go on living. Instead of continuing to destroy themselves with drugs or commit suicide they choose to fight a seemingly impossible battle knowing that they may never be forgiven by their loved ones, may never be accepted into their former social circle and may never lead the same quality of life they had before. That takes a hell of a lot of courage and I imagine the praise is just a way of saying to the person that we recognize the magnitute of his/her accomplishment and encourage the person to not lose hope. Remember all addicts are at high risk of relapse and can use every bit of support and encouragement they can get.

Cheers,

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[peacefuljeffrey 0]

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If you just want to post something such that when you get a response that you do not agree with, you respond with something so profound as "that's crap" why bother wasting the bandwidth?

Obviously, you were simply looking for validation of your own ideals and not actually seeking what others thought. If you don't post in such a way, you can get all the validation you need....

in your head.

Here's a helping hand for ya:

I didn't start this thread. Why are you replying to me as though you think I did?


-Jeffrey

-Jeffrey
"With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!"

[pirana 0]

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there's no badge of honor in fucking up ...
there's no badge of honor in going to hell

you are stronger when you make it back though

drugs/alcohol aren't the only thing that can take you there, war, depression, among other things can also take you there.

also, when one's come back, he/she isn't looking for validation from others ... the fact that they respect themselves much more is enough

Just to be clear, my opinion is that it is a false badge of honor; and that I don't think many addicts even consider it that way (if they do, they aren't fully recovered, as they still see some sort of glory in what they did).

I do think that some people's perception that a recovering addict wears such a badge is what irritates them.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[unformed 0]

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Just to be clear, my opinion is that it is a false badge of honor; and that I don't think many addicts even consider it that way (if they do, they aren't fully recovered, as they still see some sort of glory in what they did).

I do think that some people's perception that a recovering addict wears such a badge is what irritates them.

See, people should just worry about themselves and stop thinking they're better than anybody else because they did (or didn't) do something. Once they get that taken care of, they can stop worrying about whether other people think they're all high and mighty.

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[rehmwa 2]

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Why do people respect someone who fucked up and became an addict and cleaned their act up more than someone who has never fucked up/fucked over their families & friends because of their selfish addiction?

Seems the former should be kept watched more than the latter. The latter should be held in higher esteem, for not having fucked a lot of things up for themselves and others.

Your Thoughts?

I respect those that have had the strength from the beginning to not mess up in the first place. They have the most respect and have it as due to adults.

For those that found the strength later in life - the respect is different. It's more like the respect to someone you see has finally grown up. They'll always be a little lesser because of the thickheadedness in not doing it right the first time.

It less 'more respect', than acknowledging the growth that comes with late maturity.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[unformed 0]

Fear also makes for someone to never try anything risky in life.

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[rehmwa 2]

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Fear also makes for someone to never try anything risky in life.

I don't think "fear" was even a part of this thread. Can you elaborate?

my take - Taking drugs isn't a risk taking activity or exploration, it's an exercise in poor judgement - or at least lack of good forethought. Where it's not a poor health decision or addiction risk, fear doesn't come into play either - then it's just a recreational activity.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[GTAVercetti 0]

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If one just wants to post something such that when one gets a response that one does not agree with, and one responds with something so profound as "that's crap" why bother wasting the bandwidth?

Obviously, that person was simply looking for validation of their own ideals and not actually seeking what others thought. If one doesn't post in such a way, they can get all the validation they need....

in their head.

Here's a helping hand for ya:

I didn't start this thread. Why are you replying to me as though you think I did?


-Jeffrey

And here is one right back at ya: look at the thread that I first responded to. You were the one who was justifying his rationale so I responded to YOU.

Since you did NOT make the thread, the you in my reply was the generalized you. I thought that would be relatively easier to determine but I guess I was wrong. So I changed it to make it easier. See above.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[unformed 0]

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Fear also makes for someone to never try anything risky in life.

I don't think "fear" was even a part of this thread. Can you elaborate?

my take - Taking drugs isn't a risk taking activity or exploration, it's an exercise in poor judgement - or at least lack of good forethought. Where it's not a poor health decision or addiction risk, fear doesn't come into play either - then it's just a recreational activity.

I understand there are different takes, but to me, it is, or was, an exploration.

I'm not, by any means, saying people who don't try something do so because of being scared, but I do know, in some cases, where it is true.

What would you say for someone who has never had a drink his entire life?

Is he more mature because he never committed a health risk?

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[AlexCrowley 0]

I'm not sure there's any greater valor or respect deserved for having done it.

However, most people that they have fucked up at some point, seeing someone fuck up far more and come back resonates with them. someone - from their perspective - who hasn't been there is untested in most peoples eyes.

Sorta like the whole AAD vs doing it yourself. Until people see that you did your EPs even though your AAD saved you most people don't just assume that you're able to handle it all yourself.

A lot like reading non-parents talk about raising children (or watching a new spouse deal with stepchildren if they've never had them before).

So - I think I"m trying to say that the additional respect is imagined, and purely a perspective thing. However, it would be freakish to say 'wow well done, you haven't done ANYTHING!!! BRAVO!'. Except maybe your parents.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.