Chicago plans High School for Black Males

[DaVinci 0]

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That's a terribly weak response. Internment camps aren't measurable against 400 years of slavery and oppression

Only if you are not asian. Asians had their property taken THIS CENTURY. Not 400 years ago. At some point you have to stop blaming some event that happend 400 years ago for your problems today. There is not a single slave left alive. And I would venture to say that a black male born into this country is better off than most other countries.

Slavery was wrong. It was also 200 years ago. You can keep blaming the past if you like. I would rather people live in the now and plan for the future.

[ReBirth 0]

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Slavery was wrong. It was also 200 years ago.

There are Black men and women living today who lived through the Jim Crowe laws and segregation. The civil war was ummmm...way less than 200 years ago, but anyway, the civil rights movement was 50 years ago.

[DaVinci 0]

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the civil rights movement was 50 years ago.

I never said that that was no basis for the problem...I did say that to continue to just blame it is stupid.

The solution is for children to take ownership of their education and parents to make their children study. One of the biggest reasons one segment does better that the other is due to the focus of the parents.

Its not race, its not the area they grew up in, it is direct involvment by parents.

An involved parent rasies better children than a parent that lets the kid be raised by peers.

The solution is to have parents become involved, not just blaming discrimination.

And with that, I am done. It is clear to me that some would rather balme something that can not be changed rather than blame the people involved.

I wish I could say that this was enlightening, but it seems to just be the same old stuff.

It seems to be whitey's fault.

[waltappel 1]

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Is this just the natural progression of Affirmative Action? Or is this just a realistic approach to helping a disadvantaged minority?

Getting 'em ready for the penitentiary environment?

edited to add:
Here is why I have such a flippant attitude toward the whole idea. Does it not occur to any of these well-meaning social scientists that breaking the poverty cycle needs to start shortly after birth rather than waiting until high school? For many, I'm sure addressing issues in high school is waaaaaaaaaaay too late.

Further, does anyone REALLY think it is a great idea to concentrate them in a group? What about getting them AWAY from anything and anyone connected with the pattern of failure they have been saturated with? If you were to try and quit smoking, would you really want to be around 99 other people trying to quit smoking, all saying, "Damn, I sure want a cigarette!"? I know it's not even close to being the same thing but I think my point is easy to see.

I completely agree with Billvon's point that solving the problem is good for everyone, but at least on the surface, the idea of a special high school doesn't seem to even rise to the level of being a bandaid fix.

My guess is that if they are going to wait until high school to break the poverty cycle, then the better approach would be to teach them marketable vocational skills rather than suddenly trying to turn them into academic superstars.

Walt

[tigra 0]

Dayum- I actually AGREE with you, and that's really scary!

[skytripper 0]

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Further, does anyone REALLY think it is a great idea to concentrate them in a group? What about getting them AWAY from anything and anyone connected with the pattern of failure they have been saturated with? If you were to try and quit smoking, would you really want to be around 99 other people trying to quit smoking, all saying, "Damn, I sure want a cigarette!"? I know it's not even close to being the same thing but I think my point is easy to see.

This is a very valid point. However, I believe that the article presents the fact that the community is responding to the needs of its constituents. This school would be built in the community so that people living there would not have to bussed (another heated debate) across town in order to have another option. And that's what it seems to address: the need for more options. Similar to the Bush administration's push for Private school vouchers being made available to lower income students.

Also, I have seen many students of color who can 'assimilate' quite well in disproportionately 'white' student populations. As stated before, this tends to be easier when the students have similar socio-economic backgrounds.

At the same time, some students do not progress when taken out of their comfort zone which may include cultural, social, racial, and economic factors, as well as proximity to their communities and/or homes.

One more thing: Lower income students tend to do worse on standardized testing because those school systems tend to have less resources thus less learning opportunities and exposure to other cultures, etc.

Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving! ~ Patrick Dennis' Auntie Mame

[ReBirth 0]

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The solution is to have parents become involved, not just blaming discrimination.

The solution is a lot of things. The problem is a lot of things. No, it's not JUST race, it's not JUST , where they grew up, and it's not JUST the parents. It's all of those things and more. All of those issues need to be addressed. As much as "whitey" tries to ignore it, there is still racism in this country...I still can't fathom how people can deny that.

[brierebecca 0]

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The solution is a lot of things. The problem is a lot of things. No, it's not JUST race, it's not JUST , where they grew up, and it's not JUST the parents. It's all of those things and more. All of those issues need to be addressed. As much as "whitey" tries to ignore it, there is still racism in this country...I still can't fathom how people can deny that

I absolutely agree with you. I've had interesting arguments with various libertarian friends who claim that racism has been totally eradicated, and cite the fact that the richest pop stars are black. It doesn't occur to them that they're citing the exception to everyone in society.

As to your question about charter schools, I was talking about anything that is publicly funded, as this all-male predominantly black school seems to be. A charter school is still public, and is created with different interests than a normal public school. The SC has said that this interest is impermissible.

the two interests that have been asserted in terms of affirmative action statutes are:

diversity interest - basically, schools that are diverse have a better learning environment, because students have the opportunity to learn from eachother and about different backgrounds

remedial interest - the government has fucked up in the past in terms of race and sex discrimination. They need to rectify this, and so they provide additional opportunities for those who have been disadvantaged in the past because they deserve it.

I'm not saying that I agree or don't agree with these interests, just that this is how you have to style an affirmative action claim in order to win. Whether the discrimination contained in the statute is based on sex, race, or other groupings makes it easier or harder to implement affirmative action. Racial affirmative action is harder to pass, because the courts require the government to assert very substantial interests in terms of diversity and remedial interests. If the affirmative action is based on sex, the government only has to assert important, rather than substantial, interests. Here, the interests asserted are really remedial, beause they are making up for black male drop-out rates, presumably because of the history of oppression of black males in schools. Because this argument didn't pass muster in terms of affirmative action statutes based on sex, it REALLY is not okay based on race.

PM me if you have further questions, I feel like my constitutional analysis is clouding the debate about whether this measure is morally right or not.


Brie

"Ive seen you hump air, hump the floor of the plane, and hump legs. You now have a new nickname: "Black Humper of Death"--yardhippie

[DaVinci 0]

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As much as "whitey" tries to ignore it, there is still racism in this country...I still can't fathom how people can deny that.

Who is denying it? But to claim that something that happend to someone great great grandpa means they don't have achance today is nuts.

It seems strange to me how some people just want to blame a racism when it is not the problem. People CHOOSE to steal a car. They CHOOSE to deal drugs. It is a sad day when you allow a pathetic excuse to detract from the real problem.

[kallend 1,648]

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As much as "whitey" tries to ignore it, there is still racism in this country...I still can't fathom how people can deny that.

Who is denying it? But to claim that something that happend to someone great great grandpa means they don't have achance today is nuts.

It seems strange to me how some people just want to blame a racism when it is not the problem. People CHOOSE to steal a car. They CHOOSE to deal drugs. It is a sad day when you allow a pathetic excuse to detract from the real problem.

Apparently you are denying it, if you think it only happened to great great grandpa. I well remember the newsreel of Governor George Wallace standing on the steps saying "segregation now, segregation forever". The effects of such policies don't disappear overnight.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.