billvon 2,464 #76 October 3, 2005 >all electric vehicles were tried - and did not work out. a break-though > in battery technology was needed (to extend range and reduce >weight) and never happened. The technology is here right now; it's just expensive. Toyota sold a RAV4 with a range of 125 miles. 300 mile range lithium ion battery vehicles have been built. >fuel cells using compressed hydrogen are coming - it is just a matter >of when. They have even more severe range limitations than battery powered vehicles, and some very nasty safety problems. They're getting ranges of about 100 miles now with 10,000 PSI tanks, and 10,000 PSI tanks are dangerous beasts. You'll need breakthroughs in hydrogen storage before a compressed gas hydrogen cell vehicle is practical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #77 October 3, 2005 Quote>all electric vehicles were tried - and did not work out. a break-though > in battery technology was needed (to extend range and reduce >weight) and never happened. The technology is here right now; it's just expensive. Toyota sold a RAV4 with a range of 125 miles. 300 mile range lithium ion battery vehicles have been built. >fuel cells using compressed hydrogen are coming - it is just a matter >of when. They have even more severe range limitations than battery powered vehicles, and some very nasty safety problems. They're getting ranges of about 100 miles now with 10,000 PSI tanks, and 10,000 PSI tanks are dangerous beasts. You'll need breakthroughs in hydrogen storage before a compressed gas hydrogen cell vehicle is practical. electric (battery) cars will have their place - everything has advantages and disadvantages. recharge time is a disadvantage. current fuel cell vehicles have a range of about 190 miles. the first production units will have a range of 300 miles (I believe these will have the 10000 psi tanks - 300 miles is on the low end of todays gas powered cars. refilling time will be close to todays cars. compressed hydrogen (gaseous or liquid) is safer than gasoline. hydrogen is the future - it is just a matter of when. Todays IC engines will be obsolete in 20 years. A good thing! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #78 October 3, 2005 Quote compressed hydrogen (gaseous or liquid) is safer than gasoline. Can you please explain to me how driving around with a 10,000psi tank of a highly explosive gas is safer than driving a car with 10gal of gasoline? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,464 #79 October 4, 2005 >current fuel cell vehicles have a range of about 190 miles. The only hydrogen vehicles getting 190 miles now (at least that I've heard of) are the liquid hydrogen or the adsorber-based hydrogen vehicles. You just can't get enough gaseous hydrogen in a tank; remember that it's the least dense substance in the universe. >the first production units will have a range of 300 miles (I believe > these will have the 10000 psi tanks) . . . See above. Another problem is getting enough energy to compress all that gas to such a high pressure. >compressed hydrogen (gaseous or liquid) is safer than gasoline. Absolutely not. When your gas tank ruptures you risk a fire. If the fire does start, your car gets incinerated; you might even be killed if you can't escape the fire. When a large 10,000 PSI tank ruptures near you you're dead, period, even if there's no ignition source. If there is an ignition source - goodbye corner Starbucks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #80 October 4, 2005 Quote Absolutely not. When your gas tank ruptures you risk a fire. If the fire does start, your car gets incinerated; you might even be killed if you can't escape the fire. When a large 10,000 PSI tank ruptures near you you're dead, period, even if there's no ignition source. If there is an ignition source - goodbye corner Starbucks. That's what I was thinking. I can't imagine what would happen on a larger scale. (bumper to bumper traffic in houston for miles on a friday afternoon. One car has a tank that ruptures and explodes, which in turn blows up the car next to it, then the next one.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #81 October 4, 2005 Quote>current fuel cell vehicles have a range of about 190 miles. The only hydrogen vehicles getting 190 miles now (at least that I've heard of) are the liquid hydrogen or the adsorber-based hydrogen vehicles. You just can't get enough gaseous hydrogen in a tank; remember that it's the least dense substance in the universe. >the first production units will have a range of 300 miles (I believe > these will have the 10000 psi tanks) . . . See above. Another problem is getting enough energy to compress all that gas to such a high pressure. >compressed hydrogen (gaseous or liquid) is safer than gasoline. Absolutely not. When your gas tank ruptures you risk a fire. If the fire does start, your car gets incinerated; you might even be killed if you can't escape the fire. When a large 10,000 PSI tank ruptures near you you're dead, period, even if there's no ignition source. If there is an ignition source - goodbye corner Starbucks. that is BS. do some reading up on the aluminum lined carbon fibre tanks that will be used. gasoline held in the thin tanks we use is quite hazardous. to get back to the subject. I don't think there will be shortages. the price of gas will go up, people will park their giant SUVs and the price will come down a bit, and the trend continues. just supply and demand. In a couple of weeks, I am going to sell my wifes 3.8 liter Windstar and get myself a 1.5 liter Echo Hatchback (I think it is called Yaris in Europe) - this will be the only way I can afford to jump. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #82 October 7, 2005 Quoteall electric vehicles were tried - and did not work out. a break-though in battery technology was needed (to extend range and reduce weight) and never happened. fuel cells using compressed hydrogen are coming - it is just a matter of when. agreed, burning coal for electricity should be banned by developed countries. Ontario (a province of Canada) is closing all coal burning power plants by 2007 to help meet Kyoto targets - at least they are doing something right! rm here is the latest honda. see attached Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,271 #83 October 7, 2005 QuoteIn a couple of weeks, I am going to sell my wifes 3.8 liter Windstar and get myself a 1.5 liter Echo Hatchback (I think it is called Yaris in Europe) My parents recently changed both of their cars to Yaris'. The turbodiesel one is getting about 70mpg in non urban driving et the momentDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
