What is wrong with these people?

[freethefly 6]

Over the weekend I overheard someone recounting the letters his son sends fron Iraq. He talked of how they describe the Iraqi people as "shit brown" and of that the only good Iraqi was a dead Iraqi. He went on to describe how one letter spoke of kicking down doors and showing these walking, talking turds who is in charge. He was proud that his boy can kill those "fucking shit stained Iraqis". He went on to say that if his boy was to die over there, he would be proud that his boy died for the bravest man he has ever seen, George Bush. I said nothing to him as it would had only started a fight. I did however think to myself that this man was in fact a moron and then left. Anyone who is "pro-war" in my opinion is barbaric by nature. Anyone who would feel pride to have their kid die on a dirty street in Iraq needs a reality make-over. Anyone who believes that GWB is a brave man needs to read up on the history of GWB. He is far removed from being brave.



Families of US troops killed in Iraq lead pro-war rally Sun Sep 25, 7:13 PM ET
WASHINGTON (AFP) - Led by a group of families of US troops killed in Iraq, some 200 people held a rally in Washington backing President George W. Bush's war in Iraq.
The number was a far cry from the 100,000 anti-war demonstrators who gathered in Washington a day earlier, demanding the withdrawal of American troops from the battlefield.
The US-led war in Iraq has killed more than 1,900 American military personnel and left almost 15,000 wounded.
"Efforts to divide the nation by urging America to cut and run only embolden terrorists to escalate attacks on our troops and on Iraqis and leave us vulnerable here," said Diane Ibbotson, who lost her son in April last year.
"These so called 'anti-war protestors' should more accurately be described as 'pro-terrorist' supporters," retired serviceman Gary Qualls told the crowd, waving a white cross with the name of his son written on it.
"We must defeat the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan or we will be fighting them here," said the 48-year-old father, among 25 familes of fallen US troops who spoke at the rally against the backdrop of an enormous US flag.
Attached to the rostrum from where they spoke were yellow ribbons and posters, some of which read "Our families support our soldiers," "Freedom is not free" and "Keep the promise to Iraq."
Across the street, a dozen anti-war protestors shouted "Bush a war criminal" and accused the president of lying to the people to justify the costly war.
They carried a cross with an attached poster "He lied, they died."
A Gallup poll this week showed 55 percent of respondents favored speeding up plans to withdraw troops from Iraq. A New York Times/CBS poll one week ago said support for the Iraq war has fallen to 44 percent, the lowest ever for the poll over the past two years

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[tcnelson 1]

you mean there are shitty people in the world? hate to break it to ya but, there are assholes all over of all different makes and models. furthermore, there are even more non-assholes who are mostly ignorant to the world around them.

in our country, they all get to have an opinion and most of them can vote.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[pirana 0]

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you mean there are shitty people in the world? hate to break it to ya but, there are assholes all over of all different makes and models. furthermore, there are even more non-assholes who are mostly ignorant to the world around them.

in our country, they all get to have an opinion and most of them can vote.

Good observation. There are lots of people who live a life of good intentions, but who could not critical-think their way out of a paper bag. Which is why we need to have Democracy and Liberty; or as I heard it put once:

Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is having the wolves show up for dinner and getting surprosed by one well-armed sheep.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Darius11 12]

I would also add any one who looks at other people, dehumanizes them, and is a racist is a piece of shit.
But off course if he gets killed in Iraq he will be made out to be a hero. He will be called brave and good man who loved his pet cat (or some shit like that).
Not a racists shit head who deserves to be shot.

But off course. Those Arabs are animals they’re not civilized like us.

As for the Pro War protesters.

They are just so lost. How do you support a war that was admitted by the current administration was started for the wrong reason.
When you change your reason and say the first reason was wrong that means you were WRONG.
But then again we do have a lot of stupid people in this world that would rather lie to them selves then see the truth.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Gravitymaster 0]

Could you help me understand this verse from the Quran?

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Quran (4:34) orders a man to beat his wife if she doesn't obey him?
Quran 4:34: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in their sleeping places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

[pirana 0]

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I would also add any one who looks at other people, dehumanizes them, and is a racist is a piece of shit.
But off course if he gets killed in Iraq he will be made out to be a hero. He will be called brave and good man who loved his pet cat (or some shit like that).
Not a racists shit head who deserves to be shot.

But off course. Those Arabs are animals they’re not civilized like us.

As for the Pro War protesters.

They are just so lost. How do you support a war that was admitted by the current administration was started for the wrong reason.
When you change your reason and say the first reason was wrong that means you were WRONG.
But then again we do have a lot of stupid people in this world that would rather lie to them selves then see the truth.

I think there are many people you might describe as racist that just do not know any better. Race, along with language and religion, are the 3 first level determinants of culture. If something like racist behavior gets ground into you while growing up, it is very difficult to shed. Kids brought up in racially charged environments truly stand the risk of not knowing any better. Been there and lived it myself.

My approach to racist people is to seek to understand them, and try to provide experiences that will cause them to examine their beliefs. If you just label them as wrong, the conversation ends and they just go about their lives raising the next generation of racist little humans.

The cycle can only be broken by someone in the chain experiencing something that causes them to examine their beliefs and change them. It happened for me when I was 18 in a confrontation that I remember as if it were yesterday. (It was 32 years ago). You can not make people change by lecturing them or making them wrong. You become a catalyst for change by providing people an experience that causes them to question their beliefs. A very fitting thing for skydivers to do, don't you think?

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Darius11 12]

If you’re interested in understanding the Quran I suggest you study it. They do have english versions.
I am in no way a religious teacher of any kind.

Could you also please tell me what this has to do with a racist soldier who can’t wait to kill Brown People?


Do you feel loyalty to him? It seems that way. Why else would you try to take the focus of him and on to a sora of The Holy Quran that would upset the uneducated.

Why the uneducated you might ask. Simple because the educated would know similar words have been written in the books of Christianity and Judaism. I have a feeling you already know that.

Or maybe your trying to make it seem ok to call all Middle Eastern people names and try to kill them What ever your plane is you failed.

Propaganda only works on weak-minded people. Want to buy a yellow ribbon?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

I understand your point and agree with it.

But when a Nintendo solder (or PS2) wants to gun me down and we have given him/her the power to do so.
You can bet your ass I am not going to wait, Try to teach him the error of his ways, and get killed because his daddy is a red neck ass hole.
Or he is a white trash dumb-ass who doesn’t know any better. That’s all good as long as you’re not out their killing and god knows what else to other people because they’re brown.


So do you think we should capture OBL and try to teach him not to be a raciest ass hole murderer?
I say kill the fucker, or put them behind bars forever. The same goes for anyone who is willing to murder people because of their race.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[diverborg 0]

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But when a Nintendo solder (or PS2) wants to gun me down and we have given him/her the power to do so.

You should start playing the pc game "Battlefield 1942" with the desert expansion. In this game you can play on either the Iraqi side or the American side. Fun for all!!

[freethefly 6]

***you mean there are shitty people in the world?

That's a given. What I was alluding to is how can a person be so proud to what their child has become? From what I gathered from what this guy was saying of the letters from his son is that a good number of the troops have a sense that the Iraqi people are nothing but "shit stains" and that they (the troops) are there to show the Iraqis that the U.S. in now in charge of their lifes. Some of what he said is not what the Government would want the world to hear. That he was so proud that his boy has killed and would be even prouder if his boy got killed is truely sad. How can a person wear the death of their child as a badge of honor? Would these people feel the same way if the Government would also supply them with pictures of their child after they had their head blown off? Would they parade that down the street. Here, look at my boy, now. His guts laying in a pool of blood in a dirty street. His face half blown away. These people who believe that having a child sent to Iraq is an honorable thing should be forced to view the pictures of theirs and other kids after they are maimed or killed. These people need to stop supporting a president whom, himself, did what he could to NOT go to Vietnam. Bush is far worst than any draft dodger of the Vietnam era. He is a man (a very little man) whom, himself, avoided putting himself in any danger, but, has no problem sending someone else's kid into hell. Bush and his supporters are in serious need of a reality check as there is nothing honorable about having the shit in your intestinse blown out onto a filthy street in Iraq. They are NOT dying an honorable death. They are dying a very horriable death and are dying for a lie. I fully support bring them back and shoring up the defense within our own borders. It is not Americas job to change the cultures of the world. Because of that we are most hated for doing so. If other countries do not like their government, let them change it. Stop sending Americans in to do a job that, if they want change, they can do theirselves.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Darius11 12]

I should get a game system I know.

Personally my favorite game is Grand Turismo but i only play at my friends house.

No game system yet.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[tcnelson 1]

i'm not going to reply to all that stuff in your post except to say that while i was a military policeman, the vast majority in my units were understanding of the complexities of the world and didn't think the way that your example family seems to think. take what you heard as an example of one extreme and realise that the other extreme (thinking that america is the evil doer in the world and that we kill babies for fun) exists as well. most people fall somewhere in the middle and the more educated and rational they are, the better insight they will have.

"Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch
NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329

[diverborg 0]

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Personally my favorite game is Grand Turismo but i only play at my friends house.

Yep, I got that one too. Definitely one of my favorites.

[freethefly 6]

I grew up in the military. My father spent most of the sixties in Vietnam. I joined during the Iran crisis. My father was extremely worried for me doing so as he has been to war and was worried that all hell would break loose. I find it alarming that some people are against peace and openly promote war. I am positive that a majority of troops would rather be home. I am also positive that a minority cannot wait to kill and keep the machine rolling. These are the ones that I am speaking of.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Gravitymaster 0]

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If you’re interested in understanding the Quran I suggest you study it. They do have english versions.
I am in no way a religious teacher of any kind.

Could you also please tell me what this has to do with a racist soldier who can’t wait to kill Brown People?


Do you feel loyalty to him? It seems that way. Why else would you try to take the focus of him and on to a sora of The Holy Quran that would upset the uneducated.

Why the uneducated you might ask. Simple because the educated would know similar words have been written in the books of Christianity and Judaism. I have a feeling you already know that.

Or maybe your trying to make it seem ok to call all Middle Eastern people names and try to kill them What ever your plane is you failed.

Propaganda only works on weak-minded people. Want to buy a yellow ribbon?

I would despise someone who worshiped a religion that promoted violence towards ones spouse regardless of race. i wouldn't care if it was my next door neighbor or a relative. Perhaps the soldier isn't as ignorant as you portray him?

-

[juanesky 0]

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Quote

If you’re interested in understanding the Quran I suggest you study it. They do have english versions.
I am in no way a religious teacher of any kind.

Could you also please tell me what this has to do with a racist soldier who can’t wait to kill Brown People?


Do you feel loyalty to him? It seems that way. Why else would you try to take the focus of him and on to a sora of The Holy Quran that would upset the uneducated.

Why the uneducated you might ask. Simple because the educated would know similar words have been written in the books of Christianity and Judaism. I have a feeling you already know that.

Or maybe your trying to make it seem ok to call all Middle Eastern people names and try to kill them What ever your plane is you failed.

Propaganda only works on weak-minded people. Want to buy a yellow ribbon?

I would despise someone who worshiped a religion that promoted violence towards ones spouse regardless of race. i wouldn't care if it was my next door neighbor or a relative. Perhaps the soldier isn't as ignorant as you portray him?

-

How can he be? We all know that in the middle east the Islam is a bastion for liberty, tolerance, and women!!!!.

Instead of abhorring those who missuse their position as religious liders enacting fatwas contrary to tolerance and goodwill for all (INCLUDING WOMEN), they attack the messengers... It's always Bush's fault, or Israel. Death to America!, sounds so loving.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Darius11 12]

juanesky-As always i have nothing to say to you. You need help.

Gravitymaster- are you agents all religions? If yes then fine I will agree with you that any one who says beating your wife is ok is wrong.

If you are however a Christian or a follower of the Jewish fate let me know or do a search your self.
You will find writing that is similar in their intolerance and violence in both those religions.

Religions like all things must grow/change in time.

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I would despise someone who worshiped a religion that promoted violence towards ones spouse regardless of race. i wouldn't care if it was my next door neighbor or a relative. Perhaps the soldier isn't as ignorant as you portray him?

So let me guess you despise (strong word) all Christians as well?

Where is BillVon when you need him?
I remember he had posted a few quotes from different religions and they all were very barbaric compared to today’s standard.


I am still wondering what your point is by posting that sura from the Holy Quran?
Are you trying to say it is ok to kill brown people?
And if you are would it be ok if they say kill all American or pale people?
But let me guess if they say such things there evil and ignorant but it’s ok for us to say it.

I don’t know maybe it’s just me but there is nothing I hate more then hypocrisy and a double standard.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Gravitymaster 0]

Darius, you know I'm not a racist so get off the insinuations. I am against any religion, cult, sect, nationality etc. that promotes hatred and violence. Perhaps you have noticed I never get involved in any threads that discuss religion.

The reason for my reply to your comment that the soldier was ignorant is that you are assuming he has no basis for thinking the way he does about muslims and specifically Iraqis. How do you know what he has seen in his time in Iraq? Perhaps he has seen many Iraq men beating their wives and his opinion of them has been formed since being there. I would find it more ignorant for someone who hasn't been in Iraq to make the same statements, but how can you call the son ignorant? He's there. I content that he may very well have a reason for disliking them. I'm not defending him, just pointing out that he may not be as ignorant as you think he is.

I would also point out to you that you are making a bit of an ignorant statement by lumping Americans and pale people into the same catagory. Let me remind you the US is probably the most ethnically diverse country on Earth.
-

[pirana 0]

I think we need to give the Nintendo soldier the MMPI before discussing a proposed course of counseling. But if the little bastard is about to wax you, then by all means defend yourself, regardless of anybody's skin color.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[lawrocket 3]

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I would also add any one who looks at other people, dehumanizes them, and is a racist is a piece of shit.

I used to agree with you. Now I understand that this is more of a coping mechanism than anything. You know how easy it is to kill a Kraut compared to killing Franz? It is simply a much easier thing on the psyche to kill gooks, slopes, Japs, nips, frogs, limeys, micks than to kill an actual human.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Darius11 12]

Darius, you know I'm not a racist so get off the insinuations. I am against any religion, cult, sect, nationality etc. that promotes hatred and violence. Perhaps you have noticed I never get involved in any threads that discuss religion.

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No I had not noticed. I don’t pay that much attention to peoples posting habits.
As I said in my previous post if you are agents all religions then fine.

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The reason for my reply to your comment that the soldier was ignorant is that you are assuming he has no basis for thinking the way he does about muslims and specifically Iraqis. How do you know what he has seen in his time in Iraq?

When he says things such as

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He talked of how they describe the Iraqi people as "shit brown" ***

What I would question for your self is why are you so tolerant of his racism towards Iraqis would you feel the same if it was towards another race? And what if it was not an American soldier that was making these statements.



***I would also point out to you that you are making a bit of an ignorant statement by lumping Americans and pale people into the same catagory. Let me remind you the US is probably the most ethnically diverse country on Earth.

What I was trying to show you is not that all Americans are pale.
I am an American and I am Tan, but how stupid it is to hate a whole nation and race of people do to their color.
What is also very scary is this douchebag is in our armed forces. He has a gun he is part of the invading army and he looks at the people he is invading as less then human "fucking shit stained Iraqis". How can he ever be apart of making a democracy in Irag?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

• Quote

[TomAiello 25]

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...white trash dumb-ass...racist...

Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle. Kettle, Pot.

Black?

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Darius11 12]

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I would also add any one who looks at other people, dehumanizes them, and is a racist is a piece of shit.

I used to agree with you. Now I understand that this is more of a coping mechanism than anything. You know how easy it is to kill a Kraut compared to killing Franz? It is simply a much easier thing on the psyche to kill gooks, slopes, Japs, nips, frogs, limeys, micks than to kill an actual human.

I am sorry dude I didn’t know we invaded Iraq so we can kill them all?

I thought after reason #1 was found to be bullshit that they were good people who were miserable under a dictatorship, and we were there to save them, and give them a democracy. You know let Freedom ring all the great shit.

how does making it easier to kill them helping them or what we say our goal is?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[waltappel 1]

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I think there are many people you might describe as racist that just do not know any better. Race, along with language and religion, are the 3 first level determinants of culture. If something like racist behavior gets ground into you while growing up, it is very difficult to shed. Kids brought up in racially charged environments truly stand the risk of not knowing any better. Been there and lived it myself.

Most of the truly racist people I have been around got their attitudes from intense exposure to the cultures they disliked. Kind of a "familiarity breeds contempt" thing. I don't have any real problem with that.

The most irrational racists I have been around were in a small-townish environment where I lived in the northeastern U.S. I met people there that truly despised blacks even though they were less than 5% of the local population. I don't know that they were raised with those attitudes but they sure had them. I used to give them a ton of shit about it.

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My approach to racist people is to seek to understand them, and try to provide experiences that will cause them to examine their beliefs.

That's a very reasonable attitude IMO. I am constantly amused at the hordes of people who preach tolerance except toward people they consider "racist". In other words, they preach tolerance toward everyone except toward those with whom they disagree. They seem to not see their own hypocrisy.

Walt

[pirana 0]

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...white trash dumb-ass...racist...

Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle. Kettle, Pot.

Black?

However inappropriate some might think it, that made me laugh out loud. Needed that.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley