Is the Bible the Word of God?

[AlexCrowley 0]

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See how the idea of situational ethics (you can compromise your right principles in order to accomplish something you think is good) and relativism has caused so much confusion in the world!?

No, thats bullshit, you know it. It's no the point of what we're discussing, unless you've truly misunderstood everything I've said so far.

Lets go thru this slowly: I'm asking you WHY you reject certain groups of believers, and not others. You respond with 'they do not follow what I believe', you are simply one person. These believers cling to their faith and justify their works with passages from a Book that they believe is the word of God:

From the fucked up and amazingly scary psychopaths at www.armyofgod.com - Paul Hill says its ok to shoot abortionists because:

"Genesis 9:6
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed:
for in the image of God made he man.

Numbers 35:33 So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are:
for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the
blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it. "

Absolute word of God. Are you going to go out there and join him? Will anyone reading this?

If not, why not? The Bible is used to justify bigotry on any number of reasons - I dont need to expand on that. Why ignore these passages? Why is it ok to say 'Aids kills FAGS' and the Bible can defend this well enough that the clergy can refuse to give communion to homosexuals, yet I mention a few babykillers getting capped and you reject those men who embrace the very LETTER of the book!?

Boggles my mind how you can pick and choose which bits you want to interpret as being important in the 21st Century but can't allow your more committed brethren the same freedom of expression.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Mockingbird 0]

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No, thats bullshit, you know it. It's no the point of what we're discussing, unless you've truly misunderstood everything I've said so far.

No, it is NOT bullshit Alex. Think about it. Relativism has made people unABLE to see and/or label black and white, good and evil. When so- called "Christians" go out and murder in the name of their religion, ANYONE, except for relativists, can see plainly that IT IS WRONG. Christians who would condone this type of murder are relativists like much of the world is today.

[Mockingbird 0]

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yet I mention a few babykillers getting capped and you reject those men who embrace the very LETTER of the book!?

Yes, because they are embracing *a* letter of the book, without looking at the whole picture presented in the book. You can't lift a few words out of their context and use them to justify what God says is wrong and what everyone in their right minds knows is WRONG. It's so simple... unless you're a relativist, and then you can be all confused by it.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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It does not matter if that killing is done in defense or because your commander said so. According to the Jesus, ANY KILLING is wrong....

Vercetti, WHEN are we going to agree on something???

Killing in the line of duty (soldiers, police, etc.) I know is a tough one for many people. I'm sorry, but I just see a huge difference between murder and killing "in the line of duty." Loss of life at another's hands is horrible, and I hate war. I hate the fact that people kill with the backing of their authority or without. When an islamic extremist cuts off an enemy's head with malice and forethought in front of a camera, it simply cannot be justified in any civil society. The same goes for an abortion bomber-- he does it with premeditation and malice, not in self-defense or for any just cause.

I guess I trust the law when it stipulates that one act of killing is "lawful" and another is "unlawful".... although I don't like either kind!

Okay, I have NO problem with seeing killing by soldiers are different from killing by abortion bombers (indeed, I do). HOWEVER...

If you are going to say you are truly Christian and follow Jesus and follow the Bible AS IT IS WRITTEN (specifically what Jesus taught...which is supposed to be the final word on interpretation anyway)...

you are NOT following what Jesus preached.

Following the law of the land (whatever country you may be in) does not make things okay and good.

In this country, we allow shows to appear on TV which incite lust and wanting of the opposite sex. According to Jesus, such things are wrong. Yet, they are not against the law. So, do you feel these things which violate what Jesus said to be okay because they are legal?

Saying something is, particulary murder, legal is NOT a valid defense and justification under Christianity. You can be try to make it jive with your life and make yourself feel better by saying that, but it cannot be true. You can personally see all the difference you want (and I agree with this type of pragmatism) but you cannot say that it is the Christian way.


Once again, this extends my point. You, as a Christian, have said you feel that killing, if lawful, is justified..even if that law is not God's Law; the fact that one set of killing has government backing makes if easier to digest than another. But what makes your interpretation of Christianity better than another? Your side: killing, while horrible, is okay if OUR government says so. Their side: killing is okay because I believe I am serving God. Which is the BETTER version of Christianity?

One Bible, so many different interpretations. Why did God make it so hard? I think the Ten Commandments would have been enough.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[AlexCrowley 0]

Mockingbird, I see what you're saying. You're not seeing what Im saying.

I used murder as an extreme example, perhaps too extreme to cleary illustrate what I'm talking about here.

"Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits. Not everyone who calls me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you.'" Christ appears to be talking about those who make a show of their Christianity but are, in fact, not genuine article. "

Earlier in the thread Christianity was defined as:

parajito: Basic Christian Doctrine

you said: "hristians may have to "agree to disagree" about things that are not of major consequence, such as which version of the Bible is the best? Major truths, i.e., the foundations of Christianity, such as the diety of Christ, his resurrection from the dead, the trinity, salvation by the grace of God rather than by our own work, the Bible as being authoritative, the eventual return of Christ, and so on, Chrisitans hold in common. These are teachings that would be extremely hard NOT to understand. The simplest and least complex truths are usually the most important. "

According to your rules then our abortionist slaying sons of bitches remain true Christians - sure, they disagree with YOUR version of Christianity. What makes your version a religion any different than theirs?

This isnt a right or wrong question, its not moral relativism, its religious relativism, for which there is all the space in the world. (although my personal philosophy is that all morals are merely societal constructs....BS theatre, Walt :) ). Like I said, dont confuse that with what we're discussing here. Right or wrong religously is different than right or wrong morally for the purposes of this argument because even those of us who are not christian have a sense of right and wrong, but not of a Christian God.

So anyway, basic precepts of Christianity as listed do not fit the argument that you're making, which is that some Christians are not Christian because they happen to disagree with your version of Christianity a little more than [select any other sect except your own], whom you believe are TRUE christians. And using someone elses example: If members of those other sects (or your own) approve of its fellowship fighting in a war then it is hypocritical to reject the abortionist killers on the same grounds. Just because it is not your war, they are following the words, as written in the bible, in exactly the same manner that Christians justify all their other rules - quoting passages and using an interpretation of that passage.

No relativism, plain fact. It simply runs contrary to the model of Christianity that you have built in your head, the one that says 'this is right and Christian' and 'this is wrong and sinful'. As Jesus says "Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself" and

"Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. 3 Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind," (Rom. 14:1-5).

So it would seem that the Bible also says that its up to God to work out who the real Christians are. But then we have Paul in Corinthians bitching about sexual deviancy and how Christians should judge their spiritual kin - although at this point he was writing to a single church, talking about a single group following a single vision of Christianity, which may well void this inter-denominational quandry we've fallen into.

Did that help or are we still talking past each other?

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[pajarito 0]

I don't have time to respond tonight but will tomorrow. Here's some interesting info on
Should a Christian go to War

[Mockingbird 0]

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In this country, we allow shows to appear on TV which incite lust and wanting of the opposite sex. According to Jesus, such things are wrong. Yet, they are not against the law. So, do you feel these things which violate what Jesus said to be okay because they are legal? ...Following the law of the land (whatever country you may be in) does not make things okay and good.

In answer to your question, No-- not at all. I never made a blanket statement that should lead you to this conclusion. We were talking about murder and killing, not all other evils as well. You took a very specific statement of mine out of context in order to make it appear to say something which I did not intend.

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Saying something, particulary murder, is legal is NOT a valid defense and justification under Christianity.

I said murder is legal???

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You, as a Christian, have said you feel that killing, if lawful, is justified..even if that law is not God's Law;

No, certainly not if it goes against what God has said.

Murder should never be condoned. Period.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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Mockingbird, I see what you're saying.

Ah, this is music to my ears.

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You're not seeing what Im saying.

Oh rats. I'm trying, Alex.

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you said: "hristians may have to "agree to disagree" about things that are not of major consequence, such as which version of the Bible is the best? Major truths, i.e., the foundations of Christianity, such as the diety of Christ, his resurrection from the dead, the trinity, salvation by the grace of God rather than by our own work, the Bible as being authoritative, the eventual return of Christ, and so on, Chrisitans hold in common. These are teachings that would be extremely hard NOT to understand. The simplest and least complex truths are usually the most important. "

According to your rules then our abortionist slaying sons of bitches remain true Christians - sure, they disagree with YOUR version of Christianity. What makes your version a religion any different than theirs?

I don't know if the ASSOBs are true Christians or not. They may say they *believe* what other Christians believe, but whether they are the genuine article, I don't know. Only God knows. It is God who gives Life to a soul, and He doesn't tell me who he's given life to. The murder charge is a bit hard to ignore.... Seriously, I'm not trying to be evasive; I just don't know if they are a part of the family or not.

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So anyway, basic precepts of Christianity as listed do not fit the argument that you're making, which is that some Christians are not Christian because they happen to disagree with your version of Christianity a little more than [select any other sect except your own], whom you believe are TRUE christians.

Again, I can't say who is Christian and who isn't 'cos I can't see them as God does. I know most of the different groups that hold to the same major teachings of the Bible that I do, but whether each and every person in those groups are Christians, I DON'T know. For instance, if I go to the Pentecostal Church of God website, I scroll down to the bottom of the page and see a link that says "View the PCG Doctrinal Statement." OK, this usually tells me what I want to know about their beliefs. So I click on that and I see that they have the same basic view of the Scriptures as most protestant groups. Then I see their view of the Godhead, that there are three persons of one individual essence who are co-equal, co-existent, and co-eternal, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. (From this I can see that they hold to the diety of Christ, which is very important.) Their view of Man is in complete agreement with the mainstream Christian group. Concerning Salvation, they say that it is made possible through the work of Christ on the cross and through the drawing of the Holy Spirit and NOT by the works of man. The new birth with its eternal life follows, and the result is works which please God... a changed life. Hmm, I do see a bit of a problem with that last paragraph in which it is written: "Man is a free moral agent and can at any time after the new birth experience turn away from God and die in a state of sin; with the consequences of hell to look forward to." So they reject the teaching of "eternal security." This teaching is an in-house debate. Christians converse about this subject often. But it isn't necessarily a major doctrine. Some might see it as such. But your salvation isn't dependent on your views about this. At least, I don't think it is. Father knows! Then it goes on to give their beliefs about the universal Church (also called the body of Christ, of whom He is the head... Then it talks about water baptism. They view it as a symbol of the Christian's identification with Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection, so they immerse, not sprinkle. They do not view baptism as a work that must be done in order to be a Christian. Most Christian groups hold this view as well, although some don't. The manner of baptism varies from denomination to denomination, too. OK, then they talk about The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Sanctification, The Lord's Supper, foot washing, divine healing, the resurrection of all Christians and the return of Christ, Hell and eternal retribution (they believe that hell is a literal place), and lastly, they talk about tithing. Interesting; I've never seen Tithing as a subject in a doctrinal statement.

This particular Christian group holds to most of the same teachings that the mainstream holds to. There may be slight differences in a few of them, but they aren't important, just different viewpoints---- nothing to split up over.

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And using someone elses example: If members of those other sects (or your own) approve of its fellowship fighting in a war then it is hypocritical to reject the abortionist killers on the same grounds. Just because it is not your war, they are following the words, as written in the bible, in exactly the same manner that Christians justify all their other rules - quoting passages and using an interpretation of that passage.

No. It wouldn't be hypocritical to disapprove of the murder commited by the ASSOBs even if my group supported the war in Iraq. One was premeditated and with malice murder; the other is defending the innocent lives in Iraq and helping keep the peace there.

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they are following the words, as written in the bible, in exactly the same manner that Christians justify all their other rules - quoting passages and using an interpretation of that passage.

...Except that in their case, they are committing murder which cannot be supported by any scripture.

Again, I'll say that I disagree with their actions and the justification for their actions. But I leave it to God to judge the genuineness of their profession.

I can't believe I'm still up. Someone please help me. I hope I made sense, I took an ambien a while ago...

[AlexCrowley 0]

Mockingbird, you know what? I think I can say I agree on the major points that you hit here. I think we've compromised as much on the murder/war thing as we're ever going to, which is fine by me :)

Thanks for talking this out with me and not taking offence to my often annoying tendancy to beat things to death and do so in a manner that tends to piss people off (almost unintentionally)
Hope the sleep went well, I'm planning on doing some of that later this week.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[pajarito 0]

Man...
We really need to work on keeping our responses/questions down to a reasonable length (myself included). My A.D.D. won't let me go through all that I've missed in detail. You guys hammered this one out till fairly late. Any simple questions left unanswered? Did we accomplish anything?

[AlexCrowley 0]

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Man...
We really need to work on keeping our responses/questions down to a reasonable length (myself included). My A.D.D. won't let me go through all that I've missed in detail. You guys hammered this one out till fairly late. Any simple questions left unanswered? Did we accomplish anything?

HAH! A.D.D! No wonder we kept going in circles!

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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Man...
We really need to work on keeping our responses/questions down to a reasonable length (myself included). My A.D.D. won't let me go through all that I've missed in detail. You guys hammered this one out till fairly late. Any simple questions left unanswered? Did we accomplish anything?

Did we save the world? No. Have we all read some interesting points? Surely. I will try to keep it shorter (plus, we are winding it down anyway...I am getting tired of typing)

Quick response to your link: If people use Jesus as a way to say that some old Laws and rules are different from what they are in the OT, then you surely must say that "turn the other cheek" trumps any reference to allowing war in the OT. Jesus was the final word on what to do. He said "turn the other cheek" when someone hits you. That is all there is. No other quoting is needed.

Mockingbird: One sin is NOT greater than another. In God's eyes, lust and killing are both sins and both equal. You are applying relatvism to the Bible based upon the constraints of our society.

If the Bible is truly the Word of God and literal and exact, then the only context we should use is that of the time in which it was written, not today's.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[chuteless 1]

Murder is wrong....so is the killing of Iraqis by American troops done under the guise of looking for Weapons of Mass Destruction.

As much as the insurgents are murderers, it was their country that was invaded...like Vietnam...by forces from afar, ......with lies to try to justify it.


Bring the troops home and stay out of countries that don't belong to you.

Bill Cole


.

[shortyj 0]

Yes the Bible is the Word of God altough it was written by man it was inspried by Holy Spirit. Christianity is not a religion it is a faith. So what did you think about creationism?

Playtime is essential.

[Mockingbird 0]

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HAH! A.D.D! No wonder we kept going in circles!

At first I read "A.A.D."! This is a sign that I'm becoming a real skydiver.

Speaking of which, did any of y'all get to jump over the weekend? I didn't (obviously) 'cos of wind gusts. I had been dying to go all week, and then I didn't get to. I'm still trying to get through AFF. It's been hard for me so far, so whenever I taste a bit of success (like last week), I can hardly wait for the next opportunity... which sadly didn't come. Now I get to wait another 5 days...

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[Mockingbird 0]

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If people use Jesus as a way to say that some old Laws and rules are different from what they are in the OT, then you surely must say that "turn the other cheek" trumps any reference to allowing war in the OT.

Although I definitely see your point, I can also see the other side of it (which says that Christ spoke this in the context of personal relationships).

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If the Bible is truly the Word of God and literal and exact, then the only context we should use is that of the time in which it was written, not today's.

Could you explain this comment further?

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Mockingbird: One sin is NOT greater than another. In God's eyes, lust and killing are both sins and both equal. You are applying relatvism to the Bible based upon the constraints of our society.

No. God, not me, made a distinction between murder and other kinds of killing and treated them differently.

[pajarito 0]

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Quick response to your link: If people use Jesus as a way to say that some old Laws and rules are different from what they are in the OT, then you surely must say that "turn the other cheek" trumps any reference to allowing war in the OT. Jesus was the final word on what to do. He said "turn the other cheek" when someone hits you. That is all there is. No other quoting is needed.

Jesus also said:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
Matthew 5:17 (NIV)

Or, for my friend Bill :

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.”
Matthew 5:17 (KJV)

I think the explanation below says a lot in reference to what we’re discussing.

NIV Study Bible Explanation
“It is Christ’s intention that the spiritual requirement of God’s law be fulfilled in the lives of his followers. The believer’s relation to the law of God involves the following:

(1) The law that the believer is obliged to keep consists of the ethical and moral principles of the Old Testament as well as the teachings of Christ and the apostles. These laws reveal the nature and will of God for all people and still apply today. Old Testament laws that applied directly to the nation of Israel, such as the sacrificial, ceremonial, social or civil laws, are no longer binding.

(2) Believers must not view the law as a system of legal commandments by which to obtain merit for forgiveness and salvation. Rather, the law must be seen as a moral code for those who are already in a saved relationship with God and who, by obeying it, express the life of Christ within themselves.

(3) Faith in Christ is the point of departure for the fulfilling of the law. Through faith in Christ, God becomes our Father. Therefore, our obedience as believers is done not only out of a relationship to God as sovereign Lawgiver, but also out of a relationship of children to their Father.

(4) Through faith in Christ, believers, by God’s grace and the indwelling Holy Spirit, are given an inner compulsion and power to fulfill God’s law. We fulfill it by living according to the Spirit. The Spirit helps us put to death the misdeeds of the body and to fulfill God’s will. Thus, external conformity to God’s law must be accompanied by the inner transformation of our hearts and spirits.

(5) Having been freed from sin’s power, and now being enslaved to God, believers follow the principle of faith by being “under Christ’s law.” In so doing we fulfill “the law of Christ” and are thus faithful to the requirement of the law.

(6) Jesus emphatically taught that doing the will of his heavenly Father is an ongoing condition of entering the kingdom of heaven.

With reference to killing, the New Testament does make reference to its justification in certain circumstances (see my previous link). “Thou shall not kill” in the 10 Commandments of the Old Testament is actually translated as “murder.” It can also have figurative connotation (e.g. gossip & slander).

“Thou shall not kill”

[AlexCrowley 0]

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Speaking of which, did any of y'all get to jump over the weekend? I didn't (obviously) 'cos of wind gusts. I had been dying to go all week, and then I didn't get to. I'm still trying to get through AFF. It's been hard for me so far, so whenever I taste a bit of success (like last week), I can hardly wait for the next opportunity... which sadly didn't come. Now I get to wait another 5 days...

I took Thursday off work and did my Catagory G dives and had a great time. This Friday I have Scott (someones) canopy course which brings me to 25 jumps and some confidence, saturday I'm hoping to bang out cat H (as if!). So close. soooooooooo close.

Another couple of weeks and I should have my rig back in my sweaty hands. then things get fun.

TV's got them images, TV's got them all, nothing's shocking.

[Mockingbird 0]

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Mockingbird, you know what? I think I can say I agree on the major points that you hit here. I think we've compromised as much on the murder/war thing as we're ever going to, which is fine by me :)

Thanks for talking this out with me and not taking offence to my often annoying tendancy to beat things to death and do so in a manner that tends to piss people off (almost unintentionally)

That is very nice of you to say. I appreciate your hangin' on to the end too. It was interesting...

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This Friday I have Scott (someones) canopy course which brings me to 25 jumps and some confidence, saturday I'm hoping to bang out cat H (as if!). So close. soooooooooo close.

Another couple of weeks and I should have my rig back in my sweaty hands. then things get fun.

Scott Miller-- I hope to take his canopy course eventually too. I don't know what your Category H is, but it sounds like you're close to graduating and getting your A. Good luck. And lucky you, you have your own rig already. I'm jealous.

[GTAVercetti 0]

Well, I see this thread has run to its end. It was good while it lasted.

After this, I am done with this thread. So here is my last thought:

You posted that link for the Ten commandments explaining how the translation of Thou Shalt not Kill is actually not correct. I would say that this simple "translation" error creates a VERY different fundamental belief. On one hand, all killing is wrong. On another, only Murder. If the application of improper translation has been applied to just this portion of The ten Commandents, how can it possibly be true that other improper translations have not crept in elsewhere?

As I said, the difference between murder and killing is IMMENSE. I would say this is a good indication of the faultiness of humans and their keeping of the Bible.

Way back in the thread, I posted a link on how people interpreted The Bible improperly about sexual orientation. If a commandent was done wrong in some cases, why could this not also be true?

And that is it for me. Thanks for the cleverr insights and ideas.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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You posted that link for the Ten commandments explaining how the translation of Thou Shalt not Kill is actually not correct. I would say that this simple "translation" error creates a VERY different fundamental belief. On one hand, all killing is wrong. On another, only Murder. If the application of improper translation has been applied to just this portion of The ten Commandents, how can it possibly be true that other improper translations have not crept in elsewhere?

If a commandent was done wrong in some cases, why could this not also be true?

The bible is the word of man, not God. If I told you that God spoke to me last night to tell me that I needed to write a book about some rules which all humans must follow otherwise they will rot in hell, what would you think of me? You'd think I was nuts. But for some reason many people in our modern world (obviously insecure with their mortality) are clinging to this book as the truth when it's nothing more than a book written (before science I might add) to control the masses.

Oh most of the Ten Commandments are good moral rules to follow in life (there's no disputing this). I just don't believe in underlying roots of Christianity that if I don't accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, that I will be rotting in hell. But what's an agnostic to do in today's world.

PS: I know a bunch of bible thumpers are now lining up to flog me, but I won't be around for their abuse today as I'm off to do a little skydiving while the weather is good. I'd much rather jump than debate this crap.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Texas_Diver 0]

Is the Bible the word of god?

Perhaps....just as the other major religious works are the words of the other gods.

"No culture has a monopoly on beauty, just as no religion has a monopoly on truth." (Voltaire)

[pajarito 0]

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Oh most of the Ten Commandments are good moral rules to follow in life (there's no disputing this).

God's moral law (e.g. 10 Commandments) wasn’t put there so we'd have a way to lead a better life or because it would give you peace, joy, love, fulfillment, and lasting happiness (e.g. life enhancement).

God’s law doesn’t help us. It just leaves us helpless.
It doesn’t justify us. It just leaves us guilty before the judgment of the holy God.
--Ray Comfort

Peace and joy are legitimate fruits of salvation but it’s not legitimate to use these fruits as a draw card for salvation.
--Ray Comfort

“Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.”
Romans 3:19-26 (NKJV)

“Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”
Galatians 3:24 (NKJV)

The law was given “to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.”

[Zennie 0]

Which bible? The Satanic Bible?

I think that one is the Word of the Prince of Darkness if I'm not mistaken...

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[Mockingbird 0]

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The law was given “to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.”

True. I don't think many people realize that this is the *real* purpose of the Law for us. Heck, even I didn't realize this until pretty late in life.

This very thing is the reason that Paul states that "Christ is the END of the Law." He is the only person who could ever keep the Law perfectly, the only one who was perfectly righteous, the only one who ever pleased God in every way---- which is exactly why He was the only suitable sacrifice. Only *his* death could satisfy God's justice and reconcile us to the Father. Whew! Pretty awesome.