Easing the prison burden

[justinb138 0]

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Perhaps you should attend a few Narcotics Anonymous sessions. You might change your views.

It might. I personally haven't known anyone that really used pot to a point where it really hurt anything.

However, how is it any different than an AA meeting?

Marijuana, like alcohol, can be abused, and the effects of the abuse are similar.

I'm not saying either are good. I just think it's kind of stupid to so aggressively regulate one and not the other.

[Shotgun 1]

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Personally, I don't see the real difference between someone going home after work and getting stoned, or that same person going home and getting black-out drunk.

The difference is that getting black-out drunk on a regular basis will do a lot more damage to the body than smoking a little marijuana. (Not saying that marijuana won't damage the body too, but it's less harmful than excessive drinking.)

It does seem silly for marijuana to be illegal when we have a far more dangerous drug (alcohol) that is not only legal but quite socially acceptable and widely used.

[kallend 1,651]

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Personally, I don't see the real difference between someone going home after work and getting stoned, or that same person going home and getting black-out drunk.

The difference is that getting black-out drunk on a regular basis will do a lot more damage to the body than smoking a little marijuana. (Not saying that marijuana won't damage the body too, but it's less harmful than excessive drinking.)

It does seem silly for marijuana to be illegal when we have a far more dangerous drug (alcohol) that is not only legal but quite socially acceptable and widely used.

It's the Government - it doesn't have to make sense.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Jimbo 0]

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The difference is that getting black-out drunk on a regular basis will do a lot more damage to the body than smoking a little marijuana. (Not saying that marijuana won't damage the body too, but it's less harmful than excessive drinking.)

If you're going to compare getting "black-out drunk on a regular basis" to "smoking a little marijuana" then things will always come out in favor of the 'alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana' argument. If, however, you're after a fair comparison, you should be comparing getting black-out drunk on a regular basis to getting black-out stoned on a regular basis.

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Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[lurch 0]

1. It is illegal.
So is speeding. I don't see you advocating the rape of anyone doing 76 mph in a 65 zone. Why the inconsistency? So is a 20 year 11-month-and-29-day old individual with a beer. You wanna have them raped for disobedience too?

2. Either follow the law or risk the consequences.
See above.
3. If you wish it to be legal, change the law.
Chuckle, snort, snicker. Tell you what. You drive 65. Break the law get raped by bubba. Don't like it? go ahead, follow your own advice, go ahead and change it. What, you can't? Don't have the money? The influence? The time? The patience to spend 50 years and a virtual economy of black money to change the system the way the system says you're supposed to? Hey we got the best justice system money can buy and you get exactly as much justice as you can afford to pay for. There's an awful lot of people profiting hugely from imprisoning the harmless so you got to somehow overcome all that, too, if you wanna change the system. Vested interests and all that. Politicians who have to please the puritan vocal minority and not be seen as soft on drugs or crime or whatever. What, you can't do that either? Then why do you insist everyone else be limited to that method? You lack the courage of your convictions sir, or you would voluntarily restrain yourself to exactly the speed limit at ALL times and volunteer for prison bitch duty if you found you had violated it. After all, Its The Law. Don't like it? Change it.

4. If you are caught and convicted, You are a criminal.
When the law is insane and declares good people criminal the label fits but ceases to be a negative description. Someday the law will require you to surrender your firearms for the good of the people. Refuse and you too can magically become an evil lawbreaker.
...The punishment you recieve is what the law and the judge have decided is what is warranted for you.
Neither the law nor the judge is competent or qualified to decide jack shit for me. I enforce this position by not permitting either to enforce their will upon me any more than I would a religious fundamentalist. I do what I want, live well, help many, harm none. Fuck the law. I go by Right and Wrong which are determined by the simple question: does it harm none?
5. People are murdered in trying to ship you your illegal substance. You have their blood on your hands.
Again you know nothing of which you speak. I will correct you.
Most local stoners everywhere get their stonage from friends who either grow it themselves or got it from the grower. You know, the black economy?
The pot available around here is either brought down from Canada or grown in Vermont, Maine or northern New Hampshire or grown locally by those who prefer fresh high quality buds. Really low quality industrial grade mexican stuff transported in 50-pound bricks from Cali is available from south of here through various channels, local punks in Mass. industrial cities, Lowell, Lawrence, etc. Nobody's being killed over market share on crappy weed from that direction and nobody's getting killed bringing a quarter pound of Vermont's best and sharing it out among friends.
In fact, now that I think about it there's an astonishing LACK of violence related to pot around here. I can't remember the last time someone was killed over a pot shipment within 500 miles of here.
So much for your bloodshed. I ain't got SHIT on my hands friend. Nobody is murdered over an ounce of pot grown in the suburbs and consumed 25 miles away by a friend of a friend of the grower.
There is such a thing as personal judgement. I'm sure I could choose to use drugs associated with violent people and bloodshed but you know, crack heroin cocaine and crystal meth just leave me cold. Never touched any of em. Ugh. I disdain their use not because of the law but because I do not choose the risk of the use of such powerful chemicals. My own health is not the greatest and that shit would probably fuck me up. So I decline.

Your distillation has been dismantled. And you still haven't answered the original question about what happens to the status of all those prison rape candidates the moment pot is legalized. You still haven't explained how someone can become or cease to be rape-deserving scum depending on the legality of pot and the current legislative whims of the state. See earlier post: Yes or No?

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[Shotgun 1]

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If you're going to compare getting "black-out drunk on a regular basis" to "smoking a little marijuana" then things will always come out in favor of the 'alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana' argument. If, however, you're after a fair comparison, you should be comparing getting black-out drunk on a regular basis to getting black-out stoned on a regular basis.

I agree. I was just replying to what he had written, which seemed to be comparing smoking a little marijuana to getting black-out drunk.

But, all things considered, I do believe that alcohol is a more dangerous drug than marijuana.

[Jimbo 0]

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But, all things considered, I do believe that alcohol is a more dangerous drug than marijuana.

I wonder if that would be the prevailing feeling if marijuana use were as widespread as alcohol. I really have no idea as to the answer but I'd be interested in getting the info.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[lurch 0]

What I think of them is irrelevant. If the law was repealed, then logic dictates they would no longer be criminals.

Now THAT is scary. A mind which believes the treatment of citizens and brutality or lack thereof are subject to legal whim and nothing else? Suddenly the slammic fundies are looking more sensible.
So. One day the law says you have to sentence some 19-year old to prison-bitchdom which you have expressed glee about. You, with the law on your side, grin in happy anticipation of the pain of another which is entirely justified in your heart because they broke a rule. This person broke your Law and is therefore clearly deserving of such fate. But before you get the satisfaction of actually seeing this kid raped, the law changes and suddenly your victim is free, no longer a criminal. The kid comes to see you. Now explain, to his face and the face of his mother, that it was ok for you to do everything in your power to get the kid caged and hopefully raped because the law said its ok for you to do so and that your only regret is not what you almost did to the kid but that you're no longer permitted to harm the kid because the law says he ain't a bad guy anymore. This may be the most matter of fact personification of raw uncaring inhuman evil I've ever seen. Please. I'd like to be a fine upstanding citizen here. explain. I must be mistaken.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[justinb138 0]

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If you're going to compare getting "black-out drunk on a regular basis" to "smoking a little marijuana" then things will always come out in favor of the 'alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana' argument. If, however, you're after a fair comparison, you should be comparing getting black-out drunk on a regular basis to getting black-out stoned on a regular basis.

I agree. I was just replying to what he had written, which seemed to be comparing smoking a little marijuana to getting black-out drunk.

But, all things considered, I do believe that alcohol is a more dangerous drug than marijuana.

Just to clarify things, I wasn't trying to compare the health risks of the two, just the fact that taking drinking to the extreme is perfectly legal, where as smoking even a little pot can get you into some serious trouble.

[DrunkMonkey 0]

You're not trying to be an activist...you're worried about getting corn-holed. HAHAHA!

This is not about drugs, this is about a a law against one of your hobbies which, if you're caught, could cause you to be some guy's unwilling boyfriend...

This is funny....

Anyhow, toke on, Just don't show up in a court I'm the DA in (after I get thru with law school), lest you see first hand the potential consequences of your crimes.

I'm outta here. Sushi awaits.

Cheers!

[kallend 1,651]

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But, all things considered, I do believe that alcohol is a more dangerous drug than marijuana.

I wonder if that would be the prevailing feeling if marijuana use were as widespread as alcohol.
-
Jim

Isn't it?

On the whole, my experience with people high on pot is that they are rather nicer to be around than drunks.

I don't see that what adults do with their bodies in the privacy of their home, or what plants they grow in their yard, is any business of the government. If they are impaired and endanger others, that's another thing altogether.

Government sticks its nose into altogether too many places.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Jimbo 0]

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Isn't it?

I don't think that it is. The number of people I know who drink far outnumber those who smoke marijuana.

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Government sticks its nose into altogether too many places.

I seem to recall that when we talk about school boards that you're fond of reminding us that we voted them into office and that we can vote out.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[justinb138 0]

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On the whole, my experience with people high on pot is that they are rather nicer to be around than drunks.

True. And I've never met any violent potheads.

You really don't have to worry about people driving high as opposed to driving drunk either. I mean, if they hit something, they're probably doing about 4mph anyway....

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I don't see that what adults do with their bodies in the privacy of their home, or what plants they grow in their yard, is any business of the government. If they are impaired and endanger others, that's another thing altogether.

Bingo.

[lurch 0]

Actually DM, for once I AM trying to be an activist... I'm disturbed enough to speak up and waste my time posting elaborately detailed thoughts in the ass end of cyberspace because someone who is supposedly sane enough to be in law enforcement has repeatedly posted his desire to see potheads "raped by bubba" (again including grannies, kids, housewives, anyone who can be labelled pothead)...I went back and looked at your posts and you expressed that wish in every pot-related posting I looked at although I did not read them all, the sampling clearly verified the sentiment. You do not care who gets put into your list...if they violate the law they are your rightful victim.
Means you wish terrible terrible evil upon many many good authentically innocent people because they don't follow your rules. And you don't care how bad the harm you cause because anything you do to anyone is justified so long as you got a law says you can fuck em over any way you can.
If THAT is the real face of authority thats scary as hell. In your desperation to serve law order and goodness you've become representative of the only real authentic evil that exists... The desire to grievously hurt someone else due to their refusal to obey your will or the will of the nonsentient logic structure you serve. The worst part is you don't even see whats wrong with that. This is why our system is fatally diseased...because its people like that who want that power and work hardest and succeed best at getting it.

Anyhow, toke on, Just don't show up in a court I'm the DA in (after I get thru with law school), lest you see first hand the potential consequences of your crimes.

Aside from the thinly-veiled "I'm after you" implications there, the pomposity and sheer absolute you-are-subject-to-my-will-as-the-natural-order-of-things arrogance of that statement is so far beyond appalling its crossed the border to over-the-top black comedy with a healthy dose of tragedy for all your future victims. "...of your crimes", indeed! I could dig up and spout statistics about what percentage of the population tokes up on a daily basis which could be argued all day but bottom line is stoners are common as speeders and underage drinkers. You apparently consider this vast population of people, mostly good, some bad, all walks of life to be fair prey for the most inhumane psychotic treatment and the only thing restraining you is procedure. Its not even personal, like a programmed assassinbot I can just see you turn away indifferent at the last second because the law changed and your programming no longer allowed you to terminate this lawbreaker so unfortunately they're not a valid target now, how disappointing. Crime means you did something wrong. Harm none, no crime. Right and wrong are not defined by the law they are defined by human suffering and human joy and the deliberate cultivation of either. "your crimes"... By your definition half the population deserves prison and, as you have repeatedly expressed, rape. This is diseased, a corrupted memetic structure just as authentically evil as islamic fundamentalism demanding you die for allah because He Is Your God.
Drunkmonkey, I gotta tell you you're making law enforcement professionals look really really bad if you're a representative sample and have been stating your mind accurately. You don't want justice and law, you want victims without consequences to yourself. I had more respect for and less fear of the legal system BEFORE you spoke on its behalf. Before, I didn't think there was vicious intent behind a lot of laws and always figured hey I don't kill rape harm or steal, I harm none and, having a fairly clean conscience, don't fear the law or the state or the police. Figured maybe the law's sometimes a bit fucked but overall its trying to help. Now I wonder. After this exchange I'm thinking with good guys like these, who needs bad guys?
Could someone else in law enforcement please speak up and tell me this is not the dominant mentality in the field? I am friends with a couple officers around here and they're both awesome people but I don't know enough to be able to generalize about cops and law enforcement types the way drunkmonkey does stoners. This is actually the first case I've ever seen personally of a wannabe authority figure who seems to view half the species as prey, criminals or victims in waiting, or all of the above. Are there really that many authority types who are THAT cold-bloodedly vicious? DM is not helping my impression of the type, here.
Edited to add: Sorry bout the soapbox rant folks. Theres something about the "just punish them harder till they comply" mentality that pisses me off when I see it expressed. What part of "don't do bad shit to good people" is being overlooked here? The harder you try to force righteousness the wronger the outcome. I cannot believe someone who intends to be a district attorney cannot comprehend this. Keep beating your head on that brick wall, some day it'll go away....

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[gkc1436 3]

I wonder if that would be the prevailing feeling if marijuana use were as widespread as alcohol. I really have no idea as to the answer but I'd be interested in getting the info.

maybe this will help.
i used to use this analogy when explaining why i hate bars.....

put 10 people in a room drinking......
you will soon have people wanting to fight because you bumped into them or looked at them wrong(in their eyes)
a couple of beligerant(spelling sucks) idiots screaming their beliefs about whatever 3 inches from your face and spiting the whole time (yuk)
people pissing on them selfs trying to hit the toilet, or give them enough time they will piss in the corner of the room.
then because they think they know better....they will try to drive home.

10 people in a room smoking......
interesting in-depth conversation for as long as they can hold the subject line
laughter.....smiles......puff puff pass.....
and team work tryng to find food or drink

no beligerant assholes in your face screaming and spitting
they will either fall asleep or drive home when they feel up to it

thats the difference.....
And thats why i prefer the latter.....

[Gravitymaster 0]

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put 10 people in a room drinking......
you will soon have people wanting to fight because you bumped into them or looked at them wrong(in their eyes)
a couple of beligerant(spelling sucks) idiots screaming their beliefs about whatever 3 inches from your face and spiting the whole time (yuk)
people pissing on them selfs trying to hit the toilet, or give them enough time they will piss in the corner of the room.
then because they think they know better....they will try to drive home.

Quite a leap in logic here. I'd hate to be at your DZ when the beer light goes on. You are assuming they are all raging alcoholics who can't control how much they drink. I have 20 and 30 people over to my house and serve alcohol and some drink and some don't. I can't ever recall the situation you describe occuring. In fact one of the arguments made against marijuana is that people smoke pot with the "intention" of getting stoned while someone may have just one or two drinks, get a slight buzz and that's it.

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10 people in a room smoking......
interesting in-depth conversation for as long as they can hold the subject line

Or so they think at the time. Ever recall what you talked about the next day?

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no beligerant assholes in your face screaming and spitting
they will either fall asleep or drive home when they feel up to it

thats the difference.....
And thats why i prefer the latter.....

Heck, if my friends became as obnoxious as your do when they drink, I'd choose the later too.

[kallend 1,651]

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Isn't it?

I don't think that it is. The number of people I know who drink far outnumber those who smoke marijuana.

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Government sticks its nose into altogether too many places.

I seem to recall that when we talk about school boards that you're fond of reminding us that we voted them into office and that we can vote out.

-
Jim

I don't recall any candidate in the recent elections having this as a major plank in their platform.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Isn't it?

I don't think that it is. The number of people I know who drink far outnumber those who smoke marijuana.

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Government sticks its nose into altogether too many places.

I seem to recall that when we talk about school boards that you're fond of reminding us that we voted them into office and that we can vote out.

-
Jim

I don't recall any candidate in the recent elections having this as a major plank in their platform.

I think he's talking about School Board Elections.

[USNLawdog 0]

Damn miss 2 days and I'm outa the loop. OK time to catch up. Good arguements for and against drugs. Hey if you want to make drugs legal join the constantly circulating lists of people petitioning the government for it. Alcohol maybe legal now but don't forget about prohibition. Alcohol is allowed, now it's not, good upstanding citizens not to mention the wealthy and influental all drinking illegally. Nowhere will you find someone that says drug or alcohol abuse will make anyone into a certain profile of person. Then the repeal of prohibition suddenly everything is ok again, alot of people released from prison and so forth. I'll spare the what if scenario about drugs and legalization because all we'll hear is the same arguements over again. If you want to use (not abuse) drugs go for it, I hope you don't get caught. If you do well man up and take your beat down by bubba. Needless to say you won't see the inside of jail until your caught god knows how many times, or if you'll even have enough on you to warrent a felony charge or if the cop will even push the issue besides destroying the drugs. So if you just have a little pot or are stoned every once in a while in a private area you'll probably never have a problem with the law. However there are a number of people that get stoned and then go on a munchie run or are just going home, they get in their car and get pulled over. Uh oh another DUI, hands behind your head, your going to jail tonight.

Yes some cops may be corrupt, it happens everywhere not just the police. If you become friends with some cops you may find they are just like you, only in a different line of work. Do some cops smoke pot? sure. Do some drink heavily? yup. Do some go out and womanize? better believe it. Do some go home to their wife and kids? Do some trade out uniforms and goto their 2nd job? Do some stay after their shift for hours on end because they have to get reports done? Do some get called back to duty because someone else is sick? There are so many scenerios that could be run. Noone likes the cops until they have a crime commited against them. We are always picking on you right up until you need our help. We are not allowed to speed down your street until it is your house that got robbed. We shouldn't shoot someone to save our lives because it's part of the job, to risk it. I don't expect anyone outside of law enforcement to understand my point of view. I'd highly reccomend a ride along with anyones local police to see what goes on out on patrol. You may just change your mind about the local cops. It's not all supertroopers and shaft. It's 6 hours of sitting in a car drinking coffee and driving in circles, followed by the minutes of sheer terror when you arrive at the "disturbance" call and have no idea whats happening but a "disturbance". Sorry for the rambling here.

At the end of the day the choice is up to you. At home there is noone there to stop you and you can do whatever you want. The beauty of freedom, you close the door shut the shades and turn on the tv. You open a beer, the 2nd bottle of gut rot or light up the pipe and watch PCU with a bag or dorito's. The tolerance for anything is up to you. If you tolerate it then it will occur, if you step up and say this is wrong and won't be done. Enforce what you said and punish those that don't follow the rules you will gain compliance.

If a dropzone says no hook turns, you hook it in and the DZO grounds you. He is doing the same thing as the police. Enforcing the rules at that location. Now you could stop doing hook turns or you can goto another DZ. Many would say, I'll goto another DZ. Drugs are illegal in america, you want to goto another country where it's legal, I hear Scandanvia is looking to increase their poulation.

"I've taken the liberty of drafting your confession, you will be given a fair trial and then taken out back and shot."

[cruzit 0]

Contrary to what most people appear to believe, many non-violent federal offenders never see the inside of a prison. Many are sentenced to probation, home confinement, or placement in a community corrections center.

From experience, I can tell you most of the individuals incarcerated behind walls in the federal system have earned their way there. I see rap sheets every day that would make your night sleepless. Most inmates have extensive history's of violence. They carry the violence from the outside, inside the walls. Every day, correctional staff, who are vastly outnumbered, put their lives in harms way in order to carry out the sentences demanded by our federal courts.

Consider, a U.S. Attorney once told me that their office won't even consider taking a case to grand jury unless they were 99% sure they could win. So in other words, if indicted by the feds...plead out..

You want to ease the prison burden, educate the young and the poor. Volunteer in an inner-city YMCA. Do your part to discourage recidivism by hiring an ex-felon.

Okay...rant over.

J

[flyclearjohn 0]

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The difference is that getting black-out drunk on a regular basis will do a lot more damage to the body than smoking a little marijuana. (Not saying that marijuana won't damage the body too, but it's less harmful than excessive drinking.)

If you're going to compare getting "black-out drunk on a regular basis" to "smoking a little marijuana" then things will always come out in favor of the 'alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana' argument. If, however, you're after a fair comparison, you should be comparing getting black-out drunk on a regular basis to getting black-out stoned on a regular basis.

-
Jim

Alcohol would still lose ...big time!

[Jimbo 0]

> Alcohol would still lose ...big time!


Why?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[flyclearjohn 0]

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> Alcohol would still lose ...big time!


Why?

-
Jim

Why?

There is an amazing amount of research data over the past few decades on both substances with both occasional and heavy use. Alcohol is simply far more harmful (physically, socially, interpersonally and monetarily) in so many than pot, it's really ludicrous to compare the two.

But then, you had to know this, right?

[patrickweldon 0]

1. Take all the criminals....
2. Fry them (literally, like chickens.)
3. Feed them to the hungry.

See, all problems solved.

[Jimbo 0]

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But then, you had to know this, right?

No, I didn't. That's why I asked.

Got some links to this research?

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.