Supreme Court: Keeping name from police can be crime

[NightJumper 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/21/scotus.police.id/index.html
This SUCKS! So what happens when they read you your rights and you choose to exercise those rights and remain silent. Then they just arrest you for exercising your rights.

[TheAnvil 0]

Doesn't Miranda apply only for folks under arrest?

Just wondering. I dunno.

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Vinny the Anvil

Vinny the Anvil
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[Nightingale 0]

Miranda does only apply to someone who is under arrest.

I have no idea about the name thing... Lawrocket would be a better source of info.

[PhillyKev 0]

It's more complex than that. There are two conditions requiring Miranda that must both be met. They are custody and interrogation.

The general rule is that custody occurs whenever a suspect is placed in "unfamiliar and hostile surroundings". That would include at the police station or in their car. It would not apply at a traffic stop. It would apply at your house if they woke you up at 4AM, it would not if they stopped by in the afternoon.

Interrogation is not casual questions like how are you, etc. Questions about motive, alibi, ability, or opportunity to do the crime are all examples of interrogation, such as "Where were you on the night of October 13th?"

[lawrocket 3]

I don't see this as too much of an impingement on freedom. If I get stopped and the cop says, "What's your name?" I say my name. I give my driver's license, military ID, anything that says, "Yep, that's him."

The issue is that me telling my name isn't testimonial or incriminating. It's not against the law to be named, "Jerry." Ergo, not incriminating.

Cops can also pat you down when they ask you questions by a "Terry search." There's a compelling reason for cops to do a pat down - they want to make sure you don't pull a gun and cap them.

Each of these, in a strict sense, infringes on Fourth Amendment. I guess a causal link can be made, too, i.e., "What's your name?" "Osama bin Laden." That would certainly be cause for arrest if the 6'6" hairy guy were the man (speaking through an intepreter). Fingerprints can do the same thing.

I see why Stevens would be concerned. But I also think that any impingement on freedoms is minimal. And I'm a libertarian.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[PhillyKev 0]

The issue isn't whether they can ask you your name. The question is, should it be a crime, to be walking down the street minding your own business, and when a cop stops you and asks you your name, to not give it to him.

I say no. Fine, you fit a description, you might be a suspect, I could understand taking him into custody until his identity is confirmed. I can't see him being charged with and convicted of a crime simply for not giving his name.

[lawrocket 3]

Actually, this goes way back. I remember reading some notes from a case while I was in law school. It was in the end questions (and a few years ago). Apparently, some young dude was walking from a store with a bottle in a brown paper bag. A cop says, "Hey, what do you have in the bag?" The dude said, "Do you suspect me wrongdoing?" The cop said, "No." So the dude continued walking and said, "I don't have to answer that."

I recall the man was charged for refusing to provide information or interfering with a police officer. I'll look into it.

But, the whuffo press said stuff indicating that the cop had already stopped him for something. The story described an "encounter" when he refused to give his name.

Now, if the cops are going down the street stopping people to ask names without any reasonbale articulable suspicion, yeah, I'd have a problem with that. But this seems different,

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[Kennedy 0]

Halt. Yoor Papehz, Pleece.

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[kallend 1,683]

Quote

It's not against the law to be named, "Jerry."

Just wait.

...

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