christelsabine 1 #51 April 30, 2004 A lot of violence in your post. sad thing. i know that men are beating their wifes or children after drinking too much, facing too many troubles in job, with the boss and and... there are millions of reasons. in this thread, the story was about a helpless old man and two teen boys. no rapists, no killers.... kids, which inconsiderately hijacked that car, discovered the passanger in it, set him free, started with the race and endet in the tree. one of them dead. what else do you want? bashing the surviving kid? he made his lesson for life. i do not look for any excuse for a killer, f.e. in the contrary, even in Germany i would vote for death penalty in few cases. the danger i see is: violence supplies violence. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #52 April 30, 2004 Quote A lot of violence in your post. sad thing. i know that men are beating their wifes or children after drinking too much, facing too many troubles in job, with the boss and and... there are millions of reasons. in this thread, the story was about a helpless old man and two teen boys. no rapists, no killers.... kids, which inconsiderately hijacked that car, discovered the passanger in it, set him free, started with the race and endet in the tree. one of them dead. what else do you want? bashing the surviving kid? he made his lesson for life. i do not look for any excuse for a killer, f.e. in the contrary, even in Germany i would vote for death penalty in few cases. the danger i see is: violence supplies violence. What I read in your post is a lot of softening what these kids actually did. They did not, as you imply, kindly drop off the old man so that he would not be endangered while they went joyriding, nor were they somehow looking out for him because they knew they planned to crash the car, killing one of them. No, they dumped him, not caring one way or the other whether he lived or died. (Joke's on them, I guess) Anyway, I disagree with your blanket statement "Violence [begets] violence," and always have. How does that apply to an example where a man kills another man who was out to kill him and his family in a violent attack. He couldn't talk the man out of attacking his family, so he had to use violence to stop the violent. That does not in any perpetuate violence. The violence ends when the unprovoked attack is repelled and put down. And every man and woman has the right to respond to deadly physical force with the same. To fail or refuse to do so is to condemn oneself to whatever the violent criminal attacker wishes to do to one. That's not acceptable to most people of sound mind. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #53 April 30, 2004 Defending myself or my family is a completely different pair of shoes. this never was contents of thread. and on this i would agree with you: defend until death! as i'm a licensed hunter, i own guns which, in case i will use. no doubt! but for the remaining: i stick with what i said. especially regarding kids/teens/youngsters, which need more than one chance to find their proper way. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red_Skydiver 0 #54 April 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteIt takes a village to raise a child all right, My wife and I raise our daughter. I will not pass off that responsibility to some 'concept' that is just another dodging of personal responsibility. The 'village' is doing it's best to undermine the upbringing as far as I can tell. I don't think you understood what was meant. By stating it takes a village to raise a child it doesn't mean the parents are not responsilbe for raising their child it simply means that society (the local community) should take an interest in their neighbourhood and local children. If you see a kid doing something they really shouldn't be doing then do something about it. If you stand by and say or do nothing you can expect them to do it again and progress onto more serious crimes. It's not about interference with the way children are brought up by their family either, it's about not being complacent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red_Skydiver 0 #55 April 30, 2004 QuoteI don't consider myself a violent person, and I don't like to see people suffer. 1 bullet would solve this situation. And if an example were made of it, it might stop a similar situation in the future. At least young Mr. Broken arm wouldn't be bothering inocents again. Knowing someone will jump all over me for the previous statement, I'll point out we don't try to "heal" rabid dogs, we dont let a necrotic injury infect the rest of the body, we amputate. The threat of the death penalty doesn't stop people committing the crime does it? Maybe I'm wrong but I would have thought most criminals don't think they will be caught (no doubt someone will tell me I'm wrong...). I would give the kid 10 years military service instead (conscription) - maybe this will change his attitude and give him an education thereby allowing him to contribute to society when he is released. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red_Skydiver 0 #56 April 30, 2004 Oh - I forgot to mention a daily beasting too... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #57 April 30, 2004 By the time a child is 12 years old he/she knows the difference between right and wrong. This is regardless of his/her envionment or what kind of parents are involved. Actions taken at the age of 15 are the sole responsibility of the the 15 year old. They know damn well what they are doing when they do it. Some choose to act within the rules of society and some choose behavior that is outside of those rules. Its time to start holding people, young and old, responsible for their actions. All of us carry a certain amount of baggage from our past, but that is not an excuse to be a shithead. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #58 April 30, 2004 F. e., a child grown up in a violent environment, only knows what's his own "right": the "right" of the stronger one, the quicker one, the first one to use the fist, a shot gun. where to draw the line between right or wrong? they simply never were told. I do not remember who wrote this in the thread, but this one had an idea which surely would work: to put these kids for a couple of years under something like military education, to teach them respecting others and their property, simply to learn that life hat its rules. Over here we have some socializing programs of which i think it's wasted money. there are some extremely difficult trainable teenage boys, which are sent to live with their social workers. one of them is sent to Australia, but in return was sent back as intolerably. another one is a 15 yrs old guy who lived in Greece in the family with his social worker. few months ago, he simply killed this man by shooting him down with the item butchers use to kill horses. but: this young guy seriously was brain damaged since his birth due to the alcohol his mother shared with him during pregnancy. just an example. it's a very ill child. In Germany are some tendencies searching for excuses at the criminal's side, accusing the victim. I do not support that, just like to repeat: give kids another chance in life. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoadRash 0 #59 April 30, 2004 QuoteF. e., a child grown up in a violent environment, only knows what's his own "right": the "right" of the stronger one, the quicker one, the first one to use the fist, a shot gun. where to draw the line between right or wrong? they simply never were told.Quote Alrighty then, you got me started...Let's see here...I can tell you thousands of stories of people who grew up in violent or "broken" homes who don't steal cars or dump old men on the side of the road...... here goes...One of my friends was molested by two men at the age of 9, she returned to America(yes, she was molested over seas) with her mother less than a few months later, she will be graduating college in a few weeks and getting married to her Japanese sweetheart in another couple of months...Gee, she didn't lash out and molest children or steal a car and dump an old guy. Here is another one for you: A good friend of mine from high school refuses to go near alcohol and if you say the word drugs in conjunction with anything illegal she will sit you down and have a little chat with you...you know why, because her father was an alcoholic, and cocaine addict and not only neglected his wife and children, but abused them. She didn't turn around and steal a car and dump an old guy...gee, I wonder why? QuoteI do not remember who wrote this in the thread, but this one had an idea which surely would work: to put these kids for a couple of years under something like military education, to teach them respecting others and their property, simply to learn that life hat its rules. I agree, kick the remaining little shits ass and maybe he will try to turn his life around...maybe... QuoteOver here we have some socializing programs of which i think it's wasted money. there are some extremely difficult trainable teenage boys, which are sent to live with their social workers. one of them is sent to Australia, but in return was sent back as intolerably. another one is a 15 yrs old guy who lived in Greece in the family with his social worker. few months ago, he simply killed this man by shooting him down with the item butchers use to kill horses. but: this young guy seriously was brain damaged since his birth due to the alcohol his mother shared with him during pregnancy. just an example. it's a very ill child. In Germany are some tendencies searching for excuses at the criminal's side, accusing the victim. I do not support that, just like to repeat: give kids another chance in life. Give him another chance?!? Like the chance he gave that old man to live? I think not...kick his ass, send him to jail, at this point, you know what...I don't care...just as long as he is charged with attempted murder and gets what he deserves...Yeah, he is 15, yeah, he has several decades left to live...lets see him serve them where he should: Behind bars... ~R+R...P.S. There is a different between giving someone another chance and putting another criminal back on the streets...and this kid...is just another piece of shit criminal, and I'll bet money, that he has been given chances, but as far as I am concerned sealed his fate...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christelsabine 1 #60 April 30, 2004 Flaming speech. thank you. i never said that any mistreated child automatically will turn into the biggest a**hole on earth. there are reasons for every wrong behaviour. what i said here, will remain my conviction. you have your own. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tcnelson 1 #61 May 1, 2004 more evidence of the total lack of discipline and horrible parenting in our society. you're right; we should beat them both senseless; tear them down and then build them up. that's not going to happen because some civil liberties lawyer will rush to their aid arguing that it wasn't their fault...it was the man's fault for daring to sit in his car with the engine running; a blatant taunt to the youth of America."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #62 May 1, 2004 Words cannot describe how pathetic and apalling this is. Personally, I would have done the same thing to the kid that they did to the man, only I'd throw him out going 80 on the highway in heavy traffic. WTF is wrong with people??? This is an example of complete disregard for human life. Disgusting. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #63 May 2, 2004 Quote. e., a child grown up in a violent environment, only knows what's his own "right": the "right" of the stronger one, the quicker one, the first one to use the fist, a shot gun. where to draw the line between right or wrong? they simply never were told You just keep coming up with excuses for bad behavior and the shit heads of this world will use that excuse to get away with murder and laugh at you. I was raised by a alcoholic father that thought punching me around was the evening entertainment. But I did not live in a vacuum and knew right from wrong by the age of 12. I made a conscious decision to do what is right. (Well most of the time.) You need to face the real world. People need to be held accountable for their actions not told its not their fault. jmo SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
christelsabine 1 #60 April 30, 2004 Flaming speech. thank you. i never said that any mistreated child automatically will turn into the biggest a**hole on earth. there are reasons for every wrong behaviour. what i said here, will remain my conviction. you have your own. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tcnelson 1 #61 May 1, 2004 more evidence of the total lack of discipline and horrible parenting in our society. you're right; we should beat them both senseless; tear them down and then build them up. that's not going to happen because some civil liberties lawyer will rush to their aid arguing that it wasn't their fault...it was the man's fault for daring to sit in his car with the engine running; a blatant taunt to the youth of America."Don't talk to me like that assface...I don't work for you yet." - Fletch NBFT, Deseoso Rodriguez RB#1329 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #62 May 1, 2004 Words cannot describe how pathetic and apalling this is. Personally, I would have done the same thing to the kid that they did to the man, only I'd throw him out going 80 on the highway in heavy traffic. WTF is wrong with people??? This is an example of complete disregard for human life. Disgusting. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #63 May 2, 2004 Quote. e., a child grown up in a violent environment, only knows what's his own "right": the "right" of the stronger one, the quicker one, the first one to use the fist, a shot gun. where to draw the line between right or wrong? they simply never were told You just keep coming up with excuses for bad behavior and the shit heads of this world will use that excuse to get away with murder and laugh at you. I was raised by a alcoholic father that thought punching me around was the evening entertainment. But I did not live in a vacuum and knew right from wrong by the age of 12. I made a conscious decision to do what is right. (Well most of the time.) You need to face the real world. People need to be held accountable for their actions not told its not their fault. jmo SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
