I can't hook turn

[grasshopper 0]

I noticed some references to DZs that have banned hooked turns. If any of you jump at these DZs, do you know how they define hook turns? Does any high-speed landing fit their definition? Would a nice 90 to final be prohibited? What about a carving 180?
pull low, it's higher than you think

[SKY 0]

we said no hook turns, so no hook turns
I just won't go jump there then.. oh wait, I don't even try that kinda stuff yet, I'm still a skyturkey.
*deep breath* please
I love you

[ColdDuck 0]

There have been several times when I have seen experienced jumpers at my DZ surf their canopies along the ground during their landing and they do it all the time. And the DZO's don't seem to have a problem with this but they do have a major problem with hook turns. This summer a jumper got his ass chewed for making a hook turn but I did not see it. So I would assume that swooping and hook turns are different. (If I'am wrong someone please correct me)

[grasshopper 0]

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I would assume that swooping and hook turns are different

In my opinion, you can swoop from a hook turn but not hook from a swoop (that makes no sense). swooping is skimming inches off the ground. there is no standard definition of a hook turn. hence my original question. how can the DZ's ban something they can't define? they know it when they see it?

[Grogs 0]

I'm sure it's a judgement call. If you see someone heading downwind at 200', then they do a 90, followed by a 270 - it was probably a hook turn. I think some places actually go so far as to say No turns under X feet, period, but again, someone is going to have to see it and determine if you were really below 500' or not.
[rant]
IMO, the biggest problem with the 'No Hook Turns' policy is, that while it'll stop the guy with 1000's of jumps from pounding in on his Extreme-VX 69 (primarily because he'll go find another dropzone), a lot of the people who actually get hurt doing hook turns are low timers who just made a mistake. Either they were trying to make it back into the wind, avoid another canopy, or whatever and start a low toggle turn. Most of these people don't even realize they're doing a low hook turn until the people are standing over them asking if they're ok. What is needed is not more policies on what you're not allowed to do, but better educated jumpers.
[/rant]

[Iflyme 0]

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there is no standard definition of a hook turn.

Like someone said in that other thread, a hook turn is a 180 toggle turn... at least that's what I've been lead to believe. A "high performance landing" using front riser approach is not a hook turn...

[Spectrejumper 0]

My understanding is the severity of the turn is what defines a hook turn. A carving turn would look like a gentle arc if you drew it on paper, a hook turn would look like...a hook. Hook turns can be done with front riser or toggles. A poorly executed riser hook is easier to recover from than a toggle hook.
Mike D-23312
"It's such a shame to spend your time away like this...existing." JMH

[Shark 0]

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using front riser approach is not a hook turn...

Maybe not by your definition, but it can have the same effect; maybe worse when done at the same low altititude. Afterall, it is a diving turn.
---------------
GH,
You are correct... (I hate agreeing with you.) The Hook and the Swoop are mutually exclusive. Hell, even I can swoop the Spectre....

[grasshopper 0]

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A "high performance landing" using front riser approach is not a hook turn...

that is bullshit. we all say hook turns kill, but many who die are on fr. risers. so does that mean they are not hook turn deaths? you look at top canopy pilots (Luigi, JC, Jim Slaton, Sonic, Rickster etc.) and you have the balls to say none of them do hook turns? A 360 is definately a hook in my book, regardless of the controls to accomplish it. like I said, there is no standard definition of a hook turn. FAA have the only official definition I have seen yet, and it was something like any turn of over 60 while causing the canopy to pitch ?? off of the axis below ??? feet.

[Cacophony 0]

A hook turn does have a definition. It is considered as any turn exceeding 90 degrees or any turn in which the centrifugal force swings you out at more than a 45 degree angle from below the canopy. I think thats all of it but there might be a little more.
Safe landings,
Alex D-something

[Iflyme 0]

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that is bullshit. we all say hook turns kill, but many who die are on fr. risers. so does that mean they are not hook turn deaths? you look at top canopy pilots (Luigi, JC, Jim Slaton, Sonic, Rickster etc.) and you have the balls to say none of them do hook turns?

Ya, grasshopper, I do have the balls. Why do you think I said it in the first place??? ... I don't think the term "hook" is synonymous with "high performance landing"... maybe you and others do, and that's just fine with me... but we, as participants in this sport, need jargon that differentiates between dangerous low "carving toggle turns" and the much safer "front riser manuver". Clearly, you are confused about the definition of a "hook turn"... well I've indicated the definition I subscribe to. Can you suggest something clearer?
Frank (who's just starting to swoop a little - or maybe "skim" is a more suitable term for what I'm doing - by pulling on both front risers on final)