0
Squeak

Kill line length

Recommended Posts

I need to replace my kill line for my Micron V308. I've checked their website and found nothing so I emailed Pablito and have had no reply.
Anyone know the line length specs for a kill line for this H&C?
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't recall seeing specific specs published anywhere. Many kill lines require some sewing or bartacking to replace, so it's no more trouble to make them from scratch than it is to field-install a partially fabricated one from the factory.

The kill line needs to be long enough to cock the pilot chute. You'll know the pilot chute is fully cocked if the limiter/centerline tapes (the ones that run parallel to the kill line from the base of the pilot chute to the apex) take the load. Run an overlength piece of line through the bridle and finish the pilot chute end of the kill line. Cock the pilot chute, and temporarily tie the bag end of the line to the link, 1-2" (3-5cm) close to where the line emerges into the bag.

Then check to see the pilot chute collapses correctly. When the pilot chute is fully collapsed and held up by its base, you should see just mesh around the edge. If there is a rim of fabric, the pilot chute is not fully collapsed and will pinwheel. This is not a safety issue, just a pain to unwind to pack. The pilot chute should not turn inside-out so completely that it stresses the stitches holding the two sides of the bridle together at the pilot chute end. If it does, lengthen the kill line slightly and try again.

Once you've verified correct operation, then make the link-end knot permanent by fingertrapping and bartacking. An ugly bartack with contrasting thread will allow you to pick the stitches and lengthen the kill line if it shrinks.

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I suspect they have a concern for what you are doing. The list price from UPT for new, everything is about 115 dollars. After just watching the nice lady's manufacture the kill line assemblys and pilot chutes, there in fact may not be an exact length??? (They hold the assembly over a blower to test it, mark the window with a marker when the kill line is in the right position, and then tack the rest of the pc when everything is checked...) What other components need replacing? I think they want you to purchase the whole thing considering how they are manufactured as a complete assembly???

I can understand your wanting to do this yourself, saving money and also the satisfaction of doing it yourself, :)
Another way to put this is that: there isn't a pile of pre made kill lines for sale... considering the manufacturing steps involved....

C

Not directed at you Squeak, but for anyone else reading this thread there are a couple of other excellent older responses regarding kill line shrinkage and some illustrated responses from Bill B. on how to check for this. Including how to invert the pc and check the apex for the correct length. Also was a reminder that from the manufacturers perspective there are a lot of PC assemblies that are past their usefull life in use because of wear and tear. The point being way too many used PC assemblys in use! Compared with the relative ease of replacing the PC cost wise. (Consideering PC snivel and poor performance, the fabric takes a real beating, but visually still looks good.)
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I always considered kill lines to be replaceable through local riggers. Perhaps the manufacturers would like you to buy all new gear every year, but whatever.

A kill line often enough seems to wear out well before the rest of the pilot chute and bridle.

Sometimes the kill line is truly worn, sometimes it has just shrunk excessively in the case of a spectra kill line. (Sometimes in those cases there's enough slack in the finger trap to extend them.) A worn out kill line happens maybe half way to 3/4 the way through the life of the PC? The bridle to bag connection can also get seriously worn before the rest of the system, and that can be hard to fix, so sometimes it is easier to replace the PC & bridle when that part is just about done its lifetime.

But I don't inspect enough gear to be sure what the distribution of cases is, so other opinions are welcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's not too hard. It takes some time but if you have some basic rigging skills you can pull it off. You might not get an exact length from anyone because the bridle may have changed length or was not built to exact specs... Probably not but if I was doing it I'd measure it to function within the bridle you have, not the bridle you are supposed to have.


Squeak

I need to replace my kill line for my Micron V308. I've checked their website and found nothing so I emailed Pablito and have had no reply.
Anyone know the line length specs for a kill line for this H&C?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you have the original line and it is not made of spectra (microline) you can simply make another one with the same length.
If you need to start from scratch, I’d recommend using HMA. Some kill lines are made of Vectran but this requires Kevlar reinforcement (honestly I don’t remember if the Vector bridle has it).
I make my kill lines with HMA and lock the fingertrap with Jump Shack’s method.
You can figure out the length by testing. The kill line must stop collapsing the PC when the handle (apex) reaches the bridle. In other words it must not force the PC inside the bridle.
When the PC is cocked, the handle (apex) must be slightly below the PC skirt (never above). Check this by hanging the PC by the bridle.
Obviously, the correct recommendation is forget everything above and contact your rigger.
Engineering Law #5: The most vital dimension on any plan drawing stands the most chance of being omitted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ChrisD

I suspect they have a concern for what you are doing. The list price from UPT for new, everything is about 115 dollars. After just watching the nice lady's manufacture the kill line assemblies and pilot chutes, there in fact may not be an exact length??? (They hold the assembly over a blower to test it, mark the window with a marker when the kill line is in the right position, and then tack the rest of the pc when everything is checked...) What other components need replacing? I think they want you to purchase the whole thing considering how they are manufactured as a complete assembly???

I can understand your wanting to do this yourself, saving money and also the satisfaction of doing it yourself, :)
Another way to put this is that: there isn't a pile of pre made kill lines for sale... considering the manufacturing steps involved....

C

Not directed at you Squeak, but for anyone else reading this thread there are a couple of other excellent older responses regarding kill line shrinkage and some illustrated responses from Bill B. on how to check for this. Including how to invert the pc and check the apex for the correct length. Also was a reminder that from the manufacturers perspective there are a lot of PC assemblies that are past their useful life in use because of wear and tear. The point being way too many used PC assembly’s in use! Compared with the relative ease of replacing the PC cost wise. (Considering PC snivel and poor performance, the fabric takes a real beating, but visually still looks good.)



After speaking with more than a few on this subject, a few issues have come up and here are the responses:

The manufacturer is in the key position to determine via user feedback, manufacturing defects, and or defective materials, and or design changes via innovation or unusual wear. By self repairing, (this includes well meaning riggers) you have in a sense deprived the manufacturer of this information. And as a consequence done nothing to improve product reliability or safety for the skydiving consumer.

If there is in fact an issue with a part of a component such as in this example, a kill line that is wearing before its' time, it needs to be returned to the manufacturer for inspection. So that the manufacturer can inspect for any issues and either make improvements, notify other users, or use a different manufacturing process or material.

Many had this to comment on in addition:

“The pilot chute bridal, kill line and bridal assembly, including the main pin and associated stitching all tends to wear at the same rate. User feedback indicates that replacing individual components is unwarranted as to the wear of the whole assembly.” I.e. in a sense you just chasing your tail by fixing something and ignoring the fact that every other necessary component is well past its' service life even when it may appear the other components are still serviceable.

Additionally:

“If a particular rigger wishes to replace components on a factory assembled and tested unit, they are free to do so, in the sense that we the manufacturer are unable to stop them. Realize however that then that rigger has put themselves into the position akin to a test pilot with someone else's aircraft.”” The manufacturer can now no longer assure the user of the same quality or reliability or safety that years of feedback and manufacturing experience have brought to the skydiving public.”

If this wasn’t enough:

“The PC bridal is a factory assembled unit, and now some want to take it apart and change parts, didn’t they see the user label that says: “”no user replaceable parts inside.””” :)
Their point was that they’re not going to assist anyone with a tested unit and in a sense be the ones left holding the bag if some rigger makes a mistake or an improper repair. In the same breath everyone I spoke with just said to send it back and they would gladly replace the whole thing, considering its’ age and condition.

Again and again concern was expressed for the “Large” number of PC bridal assembly’s “out there” that should be replaced. Much speaking about replacing lines on canopies, new canopies, fixing small holes in canopies,…

But the PC gets swapped over to the new canopy, gets dragged on the ground, gets the most amount of use and losses its’ porosity, is filthy and covered in sweat and dirt, but they only get replaced when you purchase a new container….


At no point in time did I feel that anyone was trying to make money off of anyone. In fact what I did sense was that they wanted to help as best they can except for the fact they felt that this issue, and many other similar issues, that they were being forced into an untenable position with their backs against the wall….

C

(please don’t shoot the messenger…)
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This isn't rocket surgery. It is a component and frequently not a factory component. Lots of great 3rd party kill line pilot chutes are out there. Jim Cazer (really nice guy and great rigger) made a bagillion of them. The kill line is pretty easy to replace if you have some basic skills. It most certainly IS a replaceable part but maybe not at a beginner level.

You might find it interesting to start working towards your rigger's certificate. Many of the questions and posts you've had will seem a lot clearer. Many many more questions will come up but that is part of the process. It's a lot of work but a lot of fun too. Start talking with a few of the riggers in your area. There is a wealth of knowledge out there and if someone is motivated, these folks are usually very generous with their time and knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ctrph8

This isn't rocket surgery. It is a component and frequently not a factory component. Lots of great 3rd party kill line pilot chutes are out there. Jim Cazer (really nice guy and great rigger) made a bagillion of them. The kill line is pretty easy to replace if you have some basic skills. It most certainly IS a replaceable part but maybe not at a beginner level.

You might find it interesting to start working towards your rigger's certificate. Many of the questions and posts you've had will seem a lot clearer. Many many more questions will come up but that is part of the process. It's a lot of work but a lot of fun too. Start talking with a few of the riggers in your area. There is a wealth of knowledge out there and if someone is motivated, these folks are usually very generous with their time and knowledge.




I love Mr. Cazer.

And I love your well thought out response....

It's just when someone, well intentioned :)
Anyways I think we are on the same page!

Sometimes I do bait the bear so to speak; to get those beginners’s to think a little.

So in a sense I take the fight to point out that a number of very experienced individuals have expressed a concern regarding the sheer number of worn out PC assemblies in use as compared with, and agreeing completely that some parts are easy to change. But seizing the moment didn’t answer the OP’s question does it? We could hypothetically make an assumption that if you’re going to undertake this kind of maintenance then you have a certain level of knowledge that in effect is also pointing out that you don’t actually need, nor is the original question even worth asking?? In fact answering this question is more likely to cause harm than not….all things considered.

C

Not everything is a simple as it first appears….
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0