Shotgun 1 #26 May 14, 2003 Quote Listen to "Ulysses" by Cream and see if it makes any sense to a sober person. Ok, if I should ever find myself sober again I'll try listening to that and see if it makes any sense Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #27 May 14, 2003 QuoteIt's alright for drugs to be an occasional influence - but if it's "necessary" then the person is probably not a "real" artist, just a chemically-induced artist :) We would probably have a lot fewer masterpieces without drugs... Drugs of many sorts have been influencing artists ever since art began... what gives anyone the authority to decide who is a "real artist" or not? if my means of inspiration is belly lint. does that mean i'm not real?? drugs have been a motivating influence on civilization since the beginning..only recently have we decided that they were "good" or "bad" as opposed to another tool/experience that some choose to have while others do not.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #28 May 14, 2003 The world in and of its' self is an amazing piece of 'art'. Perhaps the most interesting dynamic to illustrate the point of "reality" is the old 'telephone game' where a circle of people are supposed to repeat "exactly" what is said to them. Does it ever get areoud the circle without an altered message? Nope, not that I've ever heard or read. I agree that there WOULD be a lot of good stuff created without drugs. If alcohol had never been 'discovered' (it's a drug, too) we'd never have had prohibition and a lot of bad things (think Capone) would never have occured. Things would just have been different, that's all. Who knows what that would have been. It DOES seem though that the 'creative' element are people who are more likely to experiment with altered states of perception - or are at least percieved to be such. Perhaps 'the masses' (we the consumers) live vicariously through those who dare to cross the line in pursuit of ??? I had the opportunity to listen to a multimedia lecture by Dr. Timothy Leary in the early 90's at university - for someone who was almost universally condemned by 'the Man' this guy had an amazing insight on what was gointg to happen to our world as a result of the computer revolution and the possibilities it brought. Never were 'drugs' discussed ... but opening one's mind to different points of view (thinking outsidethe box?) in order to create new things was. I can only imagine what must have posessed the uber-geek, Bill Gates, to think that DOS would eventually rule the world. Maybe some people don't need "help" to be creative. Finally, to really stir it up, what of Karl Marx' "Religion is the Opiate of the Masses" Is religion a an ancient 'drug' used by the aristocracy? as Marx suggests? All counterculture references aside, it is a nice treat to be a part of a philosophical discussion that does not involve boobies - not that I have ANY problem with boobiesDave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #29 May 14, 2003 Quote"Religion is the Opiate of the Masses" television is the new Opiate. Religion, Drugs and Media have all been used as a means of controlling the populace.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #30 May 14, 2003 Quote what gives anyone the authority to decide who is a "real artist" or not? if my means of inspiration is belly lint. does that mean i'm not real?? Doh! You got me there... You're right - someone can always use drugs for inspiration and still be a "real" artist - it could be considered just a tool that that particular artist chooses to use. Of course, I would think they would have more creative opportunities if they produced art both on and off drugs... different perceptions of reality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slayer21016 2 #31 May 14, 2003 Quotedrugs have been a motivating influence on civilization since the beginning..only recently have we decided that they were "good" or "bad" as opposed to another tool/experience that some choose to have while others do not. This is the truest thing i've heard so far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #32 May 14, 2003 Good Call Mr. McLuhan - but I'd go one step further and suggest DZ.com is the drug for "us". Seriously, what about the Gulf War part II? CNN was not reporting "news", they were (are?) a propaganda machine. Seriously, what about the Prozac generation? Drugs that 'balance' us eliminate the feelings that, in some, inspire creativity. The Blues is all about pain and suffering. We'd have no rock 'n' roll at all without the blues from which it was all derived. Brave New world (Aldous Huxley) Farenheight 451 (RayBradbury) Animal Farm (George Orwell) Atlas Shrugged (&) The Fountainhead (Ayn Rand) All have helped form my ideas on the subject of free will and how one should treat his (or her) fellow man. I'm not "religious" but I do feel I'm "spiritual" Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #33 May 14, 2003 Just for the record, I don't think that drugs are bad, nor alcohol, nor guns or knives, or many other things that one person or another has tried to ban at one time. I had a discussion on a talk radio program about technology...the question was if technology will destroy us...my answer was no. I think that technology is a symptom of the problem in the human race that eventually will contribute to our demise. Goes along with the saying, "Free enterprise will destroy capitalism". Same thing here...I think that misuse of drugs is where the problems occur...frankly, I don't really care if Joe Schmo gets high once in a while with his friends, any more than I would judge a parent who allows their teenager to have a glass of wine at dinner. In order to appreciate the following, you MUST understand that it is not meant as a statement for or againt religion...regardless of what you think... If you really think about the Marx statement, it is true that religion is a kind of drug. Take, for example, someone who is depressed and turns to alcohol...they are lost in the world and find something that makes it feel better and form a relationship with that substance that makes the world and their lives more bearable. Same sort of idea...people have questions about reality in which we are lost. Along comes religions, each of which offers itsself as THE answer...once you believe deeply enough in one or another, it offers comfort and seemingly answers to these questions that one has always had. What happens when you question a drunk about their addiction??? Generally, they get upset, or they deny, or any number of things...what happens when you back someone into a corner with an inconsistancy in their religion? Same sort of thing. Thinking about the Matrix, it's like when Morpheus is introducing Neo to the Matrix in the agent training program, explaining to him that there are minds that are not ready to be freed...that they hold so dearly to what they consider to be the truth that they refuse to consider any alternative. When we find something that makes us comfortable, it takes something huge to cause us to let it go. -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #34 May 14, 2003 Seriously, what about the Prozac generation? Drugs that 'balance' us eliminate the feelings that, in some, inspire creativity. The Blues is all about pain and suffering. We'd have no rock 'n' roll at all without the blues from which it was all derived. Brave New world (Aldous Huxley) Farenheight 451 (RayBradbury) Animal Farm (George Orwell) Atlas Shrugged (&) The Fountainhead (Ayn Rand) ----------- Good point. -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,679 #35 May 15, 2003 Quote>I think if anyone says they "need" to have drugs to make good > music then they do have a problem. I think they do have a drug problem, but nevertheless they have been a big influence in rock music over the past 40 years. They've created some true classics. Listen to "Ulysses" by Cream and see if it makes any sense to a sober person. Ha - I heard Cream play that live, they actually played at my college end-of-year ball. Anyone else here get to see Cream?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #36 May 15, 2003 Brave New world (Aldous Huxley) Farenheight 451 (RayBradbury) Animal Farm (George Orwell) Atlas Shrugged (&) The Fountainhead (Ayn Rand) All have helped form my ideas on the subject of free will and how one should treat his (or her) fellow man. I'm not "religious" but I do feel I'm "spiritual Ah another Ayn Rand fan eh? So few read it, so fewer understand. I learned damn near everything I know about pride, work ethic, and brutal self-honesty from that lady's writings and Atlas Shrugged is practically my bible....I'm a selfish bastard and I like it that way...if I do a friend a favor it isn't due to fake altruism its because I'LL feel better having done it. Also check out her shorter story "anthem". Maybe I ought to start a thread dedicated to discussing objectivism.Live and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #37 May 15, 2003 if I do a friend a favor it isn't due to fake altruism its because I'LL feel better having done it. --------------- The difference is whether you feel good about it because you have made someone else feel good, or if you feel good because others will look at you more favorably with disregard for the recipient of the gesture. -S_____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shunkka 0 #38 May 15, 2003 QuoteDrugs have probably produced some of the best music ever. Why would we want to eliminate that creative tool? the best answer ------------------------- "jump, have fun, pull" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airann 1 #39 May 15, 2003 Nobody gets my blood - or I will sue to get it back. (Ang Jolie??) SBS- You look kinda funny when you are asleep on other persons couches. Especially in the close up shots. Other wise you aint that bad looking for a drugged out dude. ~AirAnn~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #40 May 15, 2003 I always look funny, thank you very much... -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffGordon 0 #41 May 15, 2003 So what is the difference between a rocker taking LSD to improve her creativity and a football player taking steriods to enhance his bulk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBS 0 #42 May 15, 2003 If he's just big, that's not ok...but if he is artistically bulky, then it's fine... -S _____________ I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monarch135 0 #43 May 15, 2003 Thankyou! ...I would definetely be doing drugs if i was a rockstar..."to look out on the clouds you dont need to fly, ive never flown in a plane ,ill live till i die." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffGordon 0 #44 May 15, 2003 QuoteDrugs have probably produced some of the best music ever. Why would we want to eliminate that creative tool? Think what Jimi would have done had he not drowned in his own vomit. Drugs have also robbed of us of some of the best music. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monarch135 0 #45 May 15, 2003 puff the magic dragon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #46 May 16, 2003 QuoteQuoteDrugs have probably produced some of the best music ever. Why would we want to eliminate that creative tool? Think what Jimi would have done had he not drowned in his own vomit. Drugs have also robbed of us of some of the best music. drugs didnt kill Jimi an ignorant EMT did.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #48 May 16, 2003 oh i'm well aware of what the death certificate says, however if the EMT (who should have been charged for gross negligence & incompetence) hadnt KEPT rolling him on to his back then he never would have choked. read some of the bios, nearly every source agrees it was a very preventable fatality.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
