Argus Contacts

[Wolle 0]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and need some help. My tandem rig has a Argus in it, and I need it soon when the season starts. I tried to contact Aviacom by email, but the always are returned always because they cannot be delivered. Does anybody here know how I can contact them?

Thank you!
Wolfgang

[theonlyski 3]

They seem to be playing opossum currently.

There's ALOT of us with Argus' that want some sort of communication from them.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[dragon2 0]

I got this today:

Quote

Argus Service Bulletins
+ Users- & Installation Manuals

Argus Multi-mode AAD

To contact us
[email protected]

Dear Skydiver,
Please accept our apologies for all the trouble that the recent grounding caused you. This was out of our control.

In order to get your Argus back in the air ASAP and for your safety, we’ve issued this service bulletin:

Cutter replacement
Based on our testing and analysis, there is no longer a need to replace cutters placed below the pilot chute, so the mandatory cutter replacement is no longer required, and the previous bulletin does not apply for those configurations.

You will also find our new Argus installation guide for the riggers
What’s new: Warning for loops length. See page 27.

And the new Argus Users’ Manual is now available. We noticed that a lot of skydivers did not replace the batteries after the mandatory 12 months.

We now require the replacement of the batteries each pack cycle or after cutter activation.

Kind regards,

Karel Goorts
Aviacom Sa
Phone +32 2 785 02 80

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[matthewcline 0]

Quote

I got this today:

Quote

Argus Service Bulletins
+ Users- & Installation Manuals

Argus Multi-mode AAD

To contact us
[email protected]

Dear Skydiver,
Please accept our apologies for all the trouble that the recent grounding caused you. This was out of our control.

In order to get your Argus back in the air ASAP and for your safety, we’ve issued this service bulletin:

Cutter replacement
Based on our testing and analysis, there is no longer a need to replace cutters placed below the pilot chute, so the mandatory cutter replacement is no longer required, and the previous bulletin does not apply for those configurations.

You will also find our new Argus installation guide for the riggers
What’s new: Warning for loops length. See page 27.

And the new Argus Users’ Manual is now available. We noticed that a lot of skydivers did not replace the batteries after the mandatory 12 months.

We now require the replacement of the batteries each pack cycle or after cutter activation.

Kind regards,

Karel Goorts
Aviacom Sa
Phone +32 2 785 02 80

If I read this letter right, and understand the situation in the US right, all this letter does is get the Argus up to Argus Standards and ready for when/if the HC Manufacturers lift their bans.

Is this Correct?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[dragon2 0]

No idea.

For me personally this letter seems to do no good whatsoever, as I have had my cutter replaced, both of my rig have the cutter up top and The Netherlands have grounded all Argus AADs regardless of manufacturer's opinions at this time.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[theonlyski 3]

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If I read this letter right, and understand the situation in the US right, all this letter does is get the Argus up to Argus Standards and ready for when/if the HC Manufacturers lift their bans.

Is this Correct?

Matt

It looks like they're making it look like they're doing something.

It's kind of confusing, in that it says all of the cutters are good, but only ones made post '07 can be installed on top of a PC.

If its not, simply switching cutters with one that works out of a rig who's cutter is below the PC would make it better.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[chaospilot 5]

Email from that Argus Newsletter: [email protected]
Phone +32 2 785 02 80

I am sure Karel (the Owner) is getting alot of email these days, you may want to try and call them also.

Bryan

Bryan Cavage, D-19100
AFF I, Tandem I, Vidiot
http://www.dropzonesolutions.com
-Social Media Consultant and Skydiving Gear Guru

[davelepka 4]

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If I read this letter right, and understand the situation in the US right, all this letter does is get the Argus up to Argus Standards and ready for when/if the HC Manufacturers lift their bans.

Is this Correct?

I don't think so. I think what they did was re-write the SB and the manual so that anyone who wants to jump an Argus can, provided their rig manufacturer hasn't banned them.

It's almost another nod toward their attitude that nothing is wrong, because they're basically taking down any of their own barriers to jumping an Argus, so the only thing standing in the way is the manufacturers position. However, it also specifies only rigs that position the cutter under the PC, which sort of acknowledges that above the PC might actually be problematic. Weird.

The other thing it does is free up some space in the market for Argus. It's already suffering because the majority of rig manufacturers have banned them, so in order to make the Argus more viable to those jumping other rigs, they made it easier to use them.

I wonder what their position is on cutters, as-in, do they have them in stock, or are they waiting for them to be delivered from contractors, contractors who want to be paid. Would you really want to invest in a shipment of cutters if the future of your product was iffy?

[Unstable 8]

Man, this whole thing keeps getting weirder and weirder.

Thing #1: I'm still waiting on a repalcement cutter I sent in Last August.

Thing #2: Soooo, I jump racers, and I have Argii in my rigs. Jumpshack isn't saying anything, but on this rig, "below the Pilot Chute" is actually "above" the Pilot chute in the sense that a malfunctioning cutter can trap the loop in. How about this: I'm my own rigger, can I make my own decisions?

=========Shaun ==========

[theonlyski 3]

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How about this: I'm my own rigger, can I make my own decisions?

That would be nice, wouldn't it?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[davelepka 4]

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How about this: I'm my own rigger, can I make my own decisions?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That would be nice, wouldn't it?

For who? For you and your own rig, maybe. For your customers? I don't think so.

Do you honestly believe that you, and every other rigger, knows as much as John Sherman, Bill Booth, Kelly Farrington, Mark Procos, etc? Those are the guys with the authority to issue SBs, and it's because they know the rigs inside and out, and they are the ones who take the phone calls and emails from jumpers and riggers every time there's even the slightest hiccup with their rigs.

That's what it would take to insure the safety of every riggers customers across the country. Being a rigger is not a license to design and configure equipemnt, it's a license to follow manufacturers requirements for their equipment. Why do you think you're required to have the manual present when packing a reserve, and one of the trick questions on the riggers test is, 'What do you do when you're not sure and the manual is of no help?', with the answer being 'call the manufacturer'.

I understand your sentiment, but be realistic about your position in the 'pecking order' as a rigger. If you want to move up, get your master riggers ticket, and either TSO your own rig or go to work for someone who has. The simple fact is that you only have to be halfway intelligent to get a riggers ticket, and that's not enough to allow riggers to make significant decisions about gear configuration.

Don't feel bad, you don't have to be intelligent at all to skydive or get a license, so as a rigger you are a step above the average jumper at the DZ.

[theonlyski 3]

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The simple fact is that you only have to be halfway intelligent to get a riggers ticket, and that's not enough to allow riggers to make significant decisions about gear configuration.

I'm not saying I should be able to make the call as to customers gear. I am saying that if I am willing to accept the responsibility for having an Argus in my V3, then it should be on me.

I'm not attempting to change the configuration of the gear, just using a product that has worked before, and possibly due to sloppy rigging, has been banned from most containers out there.

When I asked UPT if they were jumping on the bandwagon, they told me that they had sent a letter to Avicom, and were giving them 24 hours to respond in a way that satisfied them.

Basik even went so far as to replicate (which I would've loved to see video or pictures of) the issue and determined that a PC has enough drag to clear the loop from the cutter. On my V3 the cutter is above the freebag, below the PC.

Would you prefer that every Argus equiped rig out there be taken from service, and put back in with no AAD?

I'm not dropping a grand on another AAD yet, so my choices are borrow a Cypres or jump with no AAD.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[davelepka 4]

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Would you prefer that every Argus equiped rig out there be taken from service, and put back in with no AAD?

Yep. The rig has been TSO'd and we know it works without an AAD. When you add a component whose functionality is questionable, and could possibly comprimise the functionality of the rig, you have possibly done more harm than good.

Without the AAD, the rig works. With the AAD, who knows? You would prefer the latter?

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I'm not attempting to change the configuration of the gear, just using a product that has worked before

So your AAD has worked before in your rig? If not, how can you be reasonably sure that it will, or at the very least, do no harm? There have been problems with those AADs in the past, and to date nobody has really been able to nail down exactly how those problems came be, or the conditions that led to them. With that in mind, how do you know that your AAD and your rig do not fit the bill? You may be juming the 'perfect storm' of Agrus malfunctions, and just don't know it.

Let's keep in mind that misfires were never part of the problem, so if your AAD has sat quitely since it's installation, that's hardly proof that it works. You only find out that it works when things have already gone horribly wrong, and at that point all you have to go by is the track record of the product.

[Unstable 8]

Man, I threw out a hypothetical and you're response was demeaning and hostile. My point is, more or less, that JS is staying more or less quit on this matter.

edited to add: Oh wait, you were replying to Onlyski. Sry.

=========Shaun ==========

[davelepka 4]

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Man, I threw out a hypothetical and you're response was demeaning and hostile

I disagree. My response was accurate and correct. You took is as hostile because it didn't agree with your shortsighted point of view.

Don't like Jump Shack's attitude? Don't jump their gear. Otherwise, trust their judgement, just like you trust them to design and build your container, and wait to see what they have to say.

You're a rigger and you know how it works. The factory can say or do anything they want at any time, and some of it can make your rig, either whole or in part, illegal to jump in the US. Who was it, Butler or Softie or one of PEP manufacturers that suddenly chose to life limit their gear, so pilots with PEPs with no jumps and in perfect shape suddenly found out riggers wouldn't touch their gear. It sucks, but that's how the system works.

[billvon 2,476]

>How about this: I'm my own rigger, can I make my own decisions?

Definitely! Do whatever you like on your own gear. Personally I'd have no problem using an Argus on a bottom-cutter-mounted container.

[Unstable 8]

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Who was it, Butler or Softie or one of PEP manufacturers that suddenly chose to life limit their gear

It was GQ Security. I have a collection of those retired rigs I've inherrited ~ still good for teaching folks how to pack rounds.

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You took is as hostile because it didn't agree with your shortsighted point of view.

I disagree. I'm not thrilled with JS's point of view either, but that is another story.

=========Shaun ==========

[likestojump 3]

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Who was it, Butler or Softie or one of PEP manufacturers that suddenly chose to life limit their gear

It was GQ Security. I have a collection of those retired rigs I've inherrited ~ still good for teaching folks how to pack rounds.


Actually the latest one was in Aug 2009 from ParaPhernalia/FreeFlight :)
re: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3670493

• Quote

[Unstable 8]

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Actually the latest one was in Aug 2009 from ParaPhernalia/FreeFlight :)

AH good catch ~ I read about that, but GQ was the first that popped into my head, just because around here we have an aerobatic club with folks that keep getting these
"Great" deals on GQ rigs from the 70s. I'll tell you what man, there are folks out there that will buy/sell any damn thing.

=========Shaun ==========

[theonlyski 3]

Not sure if it was posted somewhere else, but the argus website www.argus-aad.com is back online now.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[mjosparky 3]

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Why do you think you're required to have the manual present when packing a reserve,

You are wrong Dave. Part 65 only requires the rigger understands the manual not that they have it in hand.

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65.129 Performance standards.

No certificated parachute rigger may—

(f) Exercise the privileges of his certificate and type rating unless he understands the current manufacturer's instructions for the operation involved and has—

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While I think it is foolish to pack any rig without the manual “in hand” it is not required.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

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I am saying that if I am willing to accept the responsibility for having an Argus in my V3, then it should be on me.

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65.129 Performance standards.

No certificated parachute rigger may—

(e) Pack, maintain, or alter a parachute in any manner that deviates from procedures approved by the Administrator or the manufacturer of the parachute; or

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It doesn’t matter if it is your rig, my rig, or one that belongs to the shit head down the street. They all have to be packed to the same standard.

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Would you prefer that every Argus equiped rig out there be taken from service, and put back in with no AAD?

It’s not a matter of what I would prefer or what you would prefer. It comes down to what the FAA prefers. I appreciate what you are saying the FAA doesn’t. They are a little like the IRS, they are inflexible, no sense of humor and can’t see past the end of their nose.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 3]

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The simple fact is that you only have to be halfway intelligent to get a riggers ticke

That remark was completely uncalled for. Until now I expected better from you. You have proved me wrong.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals