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billvon 2,476
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>So far Bush is that person.
Perhaps. We're losing at least one soldier a day in Iraq and terrorist attacks against US military and civilians are getting worse. We didn't find any WMD's. Will Bush be able to pull it off? Will he manage to bring peace to an area he brought war to, find (and neutralize) the WMD's he claimed Saddam had, and leave Iraq with a functioning democratic government? If he can do all that, he'll win the election hands-down. If Iraq becomes more and more of a quagmire, then he will face a serious threat from other candidates who can criticize the actions that caused it to _become_ a quagmire.
Perhaps. We're losing at least one soldier a day in Iraq and terrorist attacks against US military and civilians are getting worse. We didn't find any WMD's. Will Bush be able to pull it off? Will he manage to bring peace to an area he brought war to, find (and neutralize) the WMD's he claimed Saddam had, and leave Iraq with a functioning democratic government? If he can do all that, he'll win the election hands-down. If Iraq becomes more and more of a quagmire, then he will face a serious threat from other candidates who can criticize the actions that caused it to _become_ a quagmire.
hell-
if Bush can get an Iraqi government functioning on its own, find those WMDs, bring a bit of stability to the middle east, and bring our soldiers home, even I'd vote for him. And that's a promise.
if Bush can get an Iraqi government functioning on its own, find those WMDs, bring a bit of stability to the middle east, and bring our soldiers home, even I'd vote for him. And that's a promise.
Guest
"Stolen Valor is worth its price if only for its chapter exposing the Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA) the left-wing group that purports to represent the men and women who served in Vietnam. The VVA’s roots trace back to the radical Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), which reliably retailed the Marxist line on most issues and railed against U.S. military and foreign policies. Robert O. Muller, one of the top VVAW activists, later formed the VVA, and with the help of Senator John Kerry (one of his VVAW comrades) obtained a federal charter for his new group."
Please see other Kerry thread.
mh
Please see other Kerry thread.
mh
"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."
Quote>So far Bush is that person.
Perhaps. We're losing at least one soldier a day in Iraq and terrorist attacks against US military and civilians are getting worse. We didn't find any WMD's. Will Bush be able to pull it off? Will he manage to bring peace to an area he brought war to, find (and neutralize) the WMD's he claimed Saddam had, and leave Iraq with a functioning democratic government? If he can do all that, he'll win the election hands-down. If Iraq becomes more and more of a quagmire, then he will face a serious threat from other candidates who can criticize the actions that caused it to _become_ a quagmire.
I disagree with Iraq being compared to a quagmire. Progress is being made everyday. They'll be having elections there soon. When was the last time that happened in Iraq?
never pull low......unless you are
Quoteand how many have we lost in Iraq so far, with no end in sight?
500 is a lot different than 58,000. Iraq is not Vietnam.
never pull low......unless you are
and there was a point in Vietnam when we'd only lost 500. The Vietnam war dragged on for years. We've only been fighting in Iraq for less than a year. Four or five years down the road, who knows what the casualty count is going to be?
Guest
I'm surprised that neo-hippies aren't in the streets, denouncing GIs returning from Iraq as "baby killers" this time. After all, what's different? Isn't it immoral enough?
mh
mh
"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."
Quoteand there was a point in Vietnam when we'd only lost 500. The Vietnam war dragged on for years. We've only been fighting in Iraq for less than a year. Four or five years down the road, who knows what the casualty count is going to be?
You're assuming that nothing will change in the next five years. Regardless of what the liberal press says we are progressing in Iraq. I'm sure that Bush wants out as bad as we do.
never pull low......unless you are
the difference is that this generation realizes our voices are better heard at the polls than shouting in the streets.
We also realize that our troops are doing their best not to harm civilians. However, we believe that a "preemptive strike" is not justified. Attacking a nation in self defense is one thing. Attacking because they might maybe attack us someday is another thing entirely. The troops are doing the best they can with the orders they've been given. It is the man issuing those orders that we have issue with.
We also realize that our troops are doing their best not to harm civilians. However, we believe that a "preemptive strike" is not justified. Attacking a nation in self defense is one thing. Attacking because they might maybe attack us someday is another thing entirely. The troops are doing the best they can with the orders they've been given. It is the man issuing those orders that we have issue with.
Quotethe difference is that this generation realizes our voices are better heard at the polls than shouting in the streets.
I thought that it was because they were lazy.
never pull low......unless you are
kallend 1,683
QuoteJane went to great lengths today already to try and distance herself from Kerry. She knows it wopuld not be politically expendient for the Democratic party for her and him to be associated. It will be on CNN again later. The fact is the she and he both spoke on the same stage at this event. Were they personal aquaintances, I couldn't tell you.
RainboQuote
I have spoken on the same stage as people I like, and on the same stage as people I detest. It's the message that's important, not the messenger's neighbors.
Churchill said it best:
After Hitler attacked Russia in June 1941, Churchill vowed to help the Soviets, declaring, "if Hitler invaded hell I would at least make a favorable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons."...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 2,476
>I disagree with Iraq being compared to a quagmire.
Top headlines over the past week:
U.S. commander's convoy attacked in Iraq
Car bomb kills 47 would-be Iraqi soldiers
Truck bomb kills at least 50 in Iraq
Document appears to seek al Qaeda help in Iraq
U.S. soldier killed in Iraq attack
U.S. May Delay Iraq Power Transfer
> When was the last time that happened in Iraq?
Two years ago. (Although I suspect they weren't very fair . . .)
Top headlines over the past week:
U.S. commander's convoy attacked in Iraq
Car bomb kills 47 would-be Iraqi soldiers
Truck bomb kills at least 50 in Iraq
Document appears to seek al Qaeda help in Iraq
U.S. soldier killed in Iraq attack
U.S. May Delay Iraq Power Transfer
> When was the last time that happened in Iraq?
Two years ago. (Although I suspect they weren't very fair . . .)
billvon 2,476
>I'm surprised that neo-hippies aren't in the streets, denouncing GIs
> returning from Iraq as "baby killers" this time. After all, what's
> different?
This time the GI's are in with the protesters. Veterans for Peace was a big presence in the San Diego peace protests.
> returning from Iraq as "baby killers" this time. After all, what's
> different?
This time the GI's are in with the protesters. Veterans for Peace was a big presence in the San Diego peace protests.
nope. its because rallies don't accomplish a whole lot. the only people who go are the ones who already agree with you.
Personally, I choose to make my political statements in open forums such as these, where, even if I can't change someone's mind, (and I am under no delusions that merely reading someone's post on a forum can change someone's mind about something people feel so passionate about), I might get them to think just a little bit harder (and if not, at least I've made myself re-examine the issue), and in the voting booth, where it really counts.
Like I said, if Bush can do all he's promised in Iraq, I will vote for him. However, I don't think he can do it, and I think waiting for him to prove he can't do it will cost even more American lives.
Personally, I choose to make my political statements in open forums such as these, where, even if I can't change someone's mind, (and I am under no delusions that merely reading someone's post on a forum can change someone's mind about something people feel so passionate about), I might get them to think just a little bit harder (and if not, at least I've made myself re-examine the issue), and in the voting booth, where it really counts.
Like I said, if Bush can do all he's promised in Iraq, I will vote for him. However, I don't think he can do it, and I think waiting for him to prove he can't do it will cost even more American lives.
Quote>I disagree with Iraq being compared to a quagmire.
Top headlines over the past week:
U.S. commander's convoy attacked in Iraq
Car bomb kills 47 would-be Iraqi soldiers
Truck bomb kills at least 50 in Iraq
Document appears to seek al Qaeda help in Iraq
U.S. soldier killed in Iraq attack
U.S. May Delay Iraq Power Transfer
The closer Iraq gets to being free, the harder the terrorists will work to try to stop the inevitable.
> When was the last time that happened in Iraq?
Two years ago. (Although I suspect they weren't very fair . . .)
That's an understatement.
never pull low......unless you are
Like I said, if Bush can do all he's promised in Iraq, I will vote for him.
I think that he can, given enough support. I don't think that Kerry could under any circumstances. Bush is not perfect, but he's the best choice imo.
never pull low......unless you are
Guest
Quote>I'm surprised that neo-hippies aren't in the streets, denouncing GIs
> returning from Iraq as "baby killers" this time. After all, what's
> different?
This time the GI's are in with the protesters. Veterans for Peace was a big presence in the San Diego peace protests.
No, I mean spitting on GIs at the airports, dumping manure on ships passing under the Golden Gate, sending hate mail to families of KIAs, and the rest of it.
Please see "Homecoming" by Bob Greene.
mh
"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."
kallend 1,683
Quote
Bush is not perfect,
No kidding, Dick Tracy!
WMDs - wrong
Budget deficit - WRONG
Reduce size of government - WRONG
Unemployment prediction - WRONG
"We'll get bin Laden" - WRONG
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Rainbo 0
If you read my first post you know that I do not challenge his service to our country. I never would speak with anything but respect for those who did serve our country.
However I do reserve the right to disagree with many things that he said and did afterwards. That is my right. I remember studying his interviews before congress in my military science classes in the mid 70's.
My point is that just as many try to use baseless facts and inuendo to tarnish Presidents Bush's reputation, that there are issues that if looked into would probably change some peoples view of Senator Kerry. However too many people are willing to take only the 30 second sound bite drivel that the Democratic party puts out.
I encourage people to study our history. I doubt that the majority of people on this forum even realize that if our government had not turned it's back Ho Chi Mihn when he came to use for in his initial quest to free his country from French colonialism that we would not have had to endure that conflict in the first place. And it was Democrats that took us there to the depth that we were involved in there as it were.
Rainbo
spelling edit
However I do reserve the right to disagree with many things that he said and did afterwards. That is my right. I remember studying his interviews before congress in my military science classes in the mid 70's.
My point is that just as many try to use baseless facts and inuendo to tarnish Presidents Bush's reputation, that there are issues that if looked into would probably change some peoples view of Senator Kerry. However too many people are willing to take only the 30 second sound bite drivel that the Democratic party puts out.
I encourage people to study our history. I doubt that the majority of people on this forum even realize that if our government had not turned it's back Ho Chi Mihn when he came to use for in his initial quest to free his country from French colonialism that we would not have had to endure that conflict in the first place. And it was Democrats that took us there to the depth that we were involved in there as it were.
Rainbo
spelling edit
Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."
Muenkel 0
QuoteWe'll get bin Laden" - WRONG
What do you have, a crystal ball? Let me know what crow tastes like when he is captured.
Chris
_________________________________________
Chris
Fonda admitted that she and Kerry addressed the crowd that day from the same platform, she maintained that their contact was minimal. "I don't even think we shook hands."
Her account stands in stark contrast, however, to that of presidential historian Douglas Brinkley, who reported in his Kerry biography, "Tour of Duty," that after Fonda and the top Democrat appeared at the same Valley Forge demonstration, she "adopted" Kerry's group, Vietnam Veterans Against the War, as "her leading cause."
On Monday, Brinkley said that while researching his book he came across additional documentation linking Fonda to Kerry.
"I've seen their names in a University of Wisconsin archive on [Kerry's VVAW]," Brinkley told "Radio Factor" host Bill O'Reilly. "Their names are on the same mimeograph sheets, where you can see them as principal speakers together."
Fonda, defending Kerry's leadership in VVAW, said it wasn't true that the anti-war group was rooting for a communist victory in Vietnam.
"This was an organization of men who risked their lives in Vietnam, who considered themselves totally patriotic," she said.
After Valley Forge, Fonda reportedly bankrolled VVAW's "Winter Soldier Investigation," an event staged in Detroit in February 1971 where Kerry interviewed disgruntled veterans in an attempt to glean the most dramatic accounts of U.S. atrocities.
Later, some "veterans" who participated in Winter Soldier were exposed as impostors.
A videotape of Kerry interviewing some Winter Soldier witnesses exists, and is likely to be made public during the presidential campaign.
Still, Fonda maintained that Kerry's attempt to spotlight alleged U.S. war crimes in Vietnam was a patriotic act.
"How can you impugn, how can you even suggest, that anyone like Kerry or any of these veterans were not patriotic?" she complained to CNN. "He was a hero there."
Eighteen months after Winter Soldier, Fonda traveled to Hanoi and sat atop an enemy aircraft battery pretending to shoot down U.S. pilots as North Vietnamese cameras rolled.
Her account stands in stark contrast, however, to that of presidential historian Douglas Brinkley, who reported in his Kerry biography, "Tour of Duty," that after Fonda and the top Democrat appeared at the same Valley Forge demonstration, she "adopted" Kerry's group, Vietnam Veterans Against the War, as "her leading cause."
On Monday, Brinkley said that while researching his book he came across additional documentation linking Fonda to Kerry.
"I've seen their names in a University of Wisconsin archive on [Kerry's VVAW]," Brinkley told "Radio Factor" host Bill O'Reilly. "Their names are on the same mimeograph sheets, where you can see them as principal speakers together."
Fonda, defending Kerry's leadership in VVAW, said it wasn't true that the anti-war group was rooting for a communist victory in Vietnam.
"This was an organization of men who risked their lives in Vietnam, who considered themselves totally patriotic," she said.
After Valley Forge, Fonda reportedly bankrolled VVAW's "Winter Soldier Investigation," an event staged in Detroit in February 1971 where Kerry interviewed disgruntled veterans in an attempt to glean the most dramatic accounts of U.S. atrocities.
Later, some "veterans" who participated in Winter Soldier were exposed as impostors.
A videotape of Kerry interviewing some Winter Soldier witnesses exists, and is likely to be made public during the presidential campaign.
Still, Fonda maintained that Kerry's attempt to spotlight alleged U.S. war crimes in Vietnam was a patriotic act.
"How can you impugn, how can you even suggest, that anyone like Kerry or any of these veterans were not patriotic?" she complained to CNN. "He was a hero there."
Eighteen months after Winter Soldier, Fonda traveled to Hanoi and sat atop an enemy aircraft battery pretending to shoot down U.S. pilots as North Vietnamese cameras rolled.
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