England; Self Defense Rights

[Kennedy 0]

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Probably no worse than Brixton. I live in a Chicago suburb and work in the city. I've yet to see a gun except at a range, at a gun store, or in the holster of a cop or the hands of a soldier. Out west you'll see hunting rifles in racks in pick-up trucks, too.

There are some for whom a gun is compensation for a short d*ck and they tend to be the boastful ones who are always talking about their Glock, but most gun owners are perfectly ordinary folks.

Just a quick quesiton Kallend, seeing as you live in and around Chicago:

Do you know what city just took the title of Murder Capitol of the US from Washington DC for last year?
I bet it's a city where you never "see a gun except at a range, at a gun store, or in the holster of a cop or the hands of a soldier."

Things that make you go "hmmmmmmmmm......"

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[PhillyKev 0]

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I live in a Chicago suburb and work in the city. I've yet to see a gun except at a range, at a gun store, or in the holster of a cop or the hands of a soldier.

And GWB doesn't know anyone who is unemployed...guess there's no problem there, either.

[kallend 1,678]

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Probably no worse than Brixton. I live in a Chicago suburb and work in the city. I've yet to see a gun except at a range, at a gun store, or in the holster of a cop or the hands of a soldier. Out west you'll see hunting rifles in racks in pick-up trucks, too.

There are some for whom a gun is compensation for a short d*ck and they tend to be the boastful ones who are always talking about their Glock, but most gun owners are perfectly ordinary folks.

Just a quick quesiton Kallend, seeing as you live in and around Chicago:

Do you know what city just took the title of Murder Capitol of the US from Washington DC for last year?
I bet it's a city where you never "see a gun except at a range, at a gun store, or in the holster of a cop or the hands of a soldier."

Things that make you go "hmmmmmmmmm......"

I'm very well aware that Chicago has a serious drug/gang/homicide problem.


The "no-go" areas are well demarcated, and I (and other sensible people) don't go there. I wouldn't go there armed either, I never heard of a gun that made one bulletproof.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,678]

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I live in a Chicago suburb and work in the city. I've yet to see a gun except at a range, at a gun store, or in the holster of a cop or the hands of a soldier.

And GWB doesn't know anyone who is unemployed...guess there's no problem there, either.

It's really simple - if I walk into Cabrini Green or Austin at night I am (a) stupid, and (b) asking for trouble. So I don't go there. I wouldn't go there even if armed to the teeth. If you think you could go there and be safe because you're carrying, you're stupid too. The gang bangers are all armed and they mostly shoot each other.

In the other 99% of the city and suburbs, I'd walk anywhere and not expect to be bothered by anyone. This is based on 26 years living and working there.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PhillyKev 0]

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The "no-go" areas are well demarcated, and I (and other sensible people) don't go there.

What about the people that live there? Or are there areas where every single resident is a dug dealing gangster murderer? Also, not every city is as segregated as Chicago. I'm sitting on the Avenue of the Arts in Philadelphia, across from the Academy of Music, a block from the Kimmel Center for the performing Arts, 3 blocks from city hall, 5 blocks from my house, and I can look down the street and see drug dealers on the corner.

[PhillyKev 0]

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It's really simple - if I walk into Cabrini Green or Austin at night I am (a) stupid, and (b) asking for trouble.

Or maybe you're being charitable. For instance once every couple of months I go out with an organization called Stand Up For Kids and we find homeless juveniles to give them food, shoes, back packs, coats, etc. Since it's illegal for them to be homeless, they won't go to a shelter since they'll be arrested and possibly sent back to whomever they ran away from in the first place. These kids aren't hanging out in the best neighborhoods and we usually have to go at night to find them at the usual sleeping spots.

[Kennedy 0]

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It's really simple - if I walk into Cabrini Green or Austin at night I am (a) stupid, and (b) asking for trouble. So I don't go there. I wouldn't go there even if armed to the teeth. If you think you could go there and be safe because you're carrying, you're stupid too. The gang bangers are all armed and they mostly shoot each other.

In the other 99% of the city and suburbs, I'd walk anywhere and not expect to be bothered by anyone. This is based on 26 years living and working there.

OK, so my chicago geography isn't the best, but you're telling me you would walk from that huge convention center on the south end up to say, the museum, or soldier, or the planetarium? They may be building million dollar townhouses three blocks away, but it's not exactly a nice part of town.

I was concerned at 2:00 in the afternoon. Concerned hell, I was close to soiling my shorts.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[kallend 1,678]

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It's really simple - if I walk into Cabrini Green or Austin at night I am (a) stupid, and (b) asking for trouble. So I don't go there. I wouldn't go there even if armed to the teeth. If you think you could go there and be safe because you're carrying, you're stupid too. The gang bangers are all armed and they mostly shoot each other.

In the other 99% of the city and suburbs, I'd walk anywhere and not expect to be bothered by anyone. This is based on 26 years living and working there.

OK, so my chicago geography isn't the best, but you're telling me you would walk from that huge convention center on the south end up to say, the museum, or soldier, or the planetarium? They may be building million dollar townhouses three blocks away, but it's not exactly a nice part of town.

I was concerned at 2:00 in the afternoon. Concerned hell, I was close to soiling my shorts.

Not only "would", but "have". The convention center is a mile from my office. I walk to Comiskey Park, McCormick Place, Soldier Field, Chinatown, the lakeshore, Meigs (before our idiot mayor closed it), the museum campus. I have never been bothered by anyone. My ex-wife had a purse snatched by a kid once, who ran off (but I caught him).

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,678]

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The "no-go" areas are well demarcated, and I (and other sensible people) don't go there.

What about the people that live there? Or are there areas where every single resident is a dug dealing gangster murderer? Also, not every city is as segregated as Chicago. I'm sitting on the Avenue of the Arts in Philadelphia, across from the Academy of Music, a block from the Kimmel Center for the performing Arts, 3 blocks from city hall, 5 blocks from my house, and I can look down the street and see drug dealers on the corner.

Can you see their guns?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Can you see their guns?

No...so they must not have them, right?

[velo90 0]

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My ex-wife had a purse snatched by a kid once, who ran off (but I caught him).

Did you shoot him ?

Oh sorry, I forgot, you're not a texan.

[kallend 1,678]

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Can you see their guns?

No...so they must not have them, right?

My POINT, if you recall, was that I hadn't SEEN guns except on police, at the range, etc., and you seemed to find that curious.

Chicago 2004 is not like Dodge City 1888.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,678]

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My ex-wife had a purse snatched by a kid once, who ran off (but I caught him).

Did you shoot him ?

Oh sorry, I forgot, you're not a texan.

I don't own a gun, but I don't oppose the right to. I think a lot of the pro-gun arguments are bogus, though. I really don't think I would make my life any more secure if I owned a gun.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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I never heard of a gun that made one bulletproof.

No one claims that they do.

But that doesn't stop you from setting it up as a strawman argument, and then knocking it down, as if it actually means something.

Guns do, however, provide an effective means of self-defense against violent attack, which you will not otherwise possess.

See Proof Here

[JohnRich 4]

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I really don't think I would make my life any more secure if I owned a gun.

Here are some sample stories of people from Chicago who, like you, also never expected to be a victim of violent attack.

Chicago Sun-Times, Chicago, Ill., 11/23/01:
"A West Side Chicago resident shot and killed an intruder in his home when the man stormed into his bedroom and demanded to see a part of his wife's anatomy. Curtis Reed kicked open the basement door of the apartment building and ran up the back stairs directly into the couple's bedroom. "He said to the woman, 'show me your ... ,' and at that point, the husband fired," said Area 4 Violent Crimes Detective Mike Miller. Reed did not appear to have stolen anything from the home, Miller reported."

Daily Herald, Arlington Heights, IL, 11/16/00:
"When blood-curdling screams reached law partner Aldo Botti in his suburban Chicago offices, he herded about 15 people into a conference room and grabbed his .357 revolver. A distraught woman reportedly had targeted someone in the building and was armed with both a handgun and a Molotov cocktail. One attorney heard her complaining about the judicial system in reference to a failed custody battle. When she allegedly pointed the gun at a receptionist and began attempting to light the bomb, Botti confronted her. "I told her if she pulled the trigger I'd kill her." After a tense standoff, police arrived and convinced the woman to give up. Recounting the harrowing incident, Botti said, 'I didn't shoot her because I felt there was a chance to correct the situation.'"

Chicago Sun-Times, Chicago, Ill., 10/5/00:
"A vigilant West Side Chicago neighbor rescued a 4-year-old girl and her grandmother who were attacked by a pair of free-roaming pit bulls while taking a walk in the neighborhood. Hearing the victims' screams, the man armed himself, went outside and fired on the animals. One died and the other was later destroyed by authorities. The girl suffered severe lacerations on her face, legs and an ear and was later listed in good condition at a nearby hospital. The grandmother was treated for a wound to her knee and released. The dogs' owner was later charged with reckless conduct."

Chicago Tribune, Chicago, Ill., 3/2/00:
'A 79-year-old resident of Chicago's south side was at home one night when someone broke a window and knocked in his door, according to police. The startled man mustered the presence of mind to retreat to his bedroom and arm himself with a .38-cal. handgun. When his 30-year-old assailant whom he now could see was armed with a knife advanced threateningly toward him, the resident issued a stern warning. The crazed attacker refused to yield, however, and was felled by a fatal shot. The Cook County state's attorney rejected charges against the homeowner."

Chicago Tribune, Chicago, IL, 12/9/98:
"As Bruno Kosinski, 81, of Chicago's Ukranian Village was getting into his car before dawn one morning, two teenagers attacked him with pepper spray, knocked him down, stole his wallet and threatened to kill him, according to police. That's when the 5-foot, 5-inch Kosinski fought back, rising to his feet and firing once with a handgun he carries in his pants for protection. The shot struck a male attacker in the neck and sent a female accomplice fleeing. Though he did not have a carry permit, Kosinski was not charged with any crime. "He had a registered weapon and used it to defend himself against these gangbangers," said a police spokesman."

Note that none of these people went "looking" for trouble by visiting bad neighborhoods. And without their guns for self-defense, they could have died at the hands of criminals. In Chicago.

I wish you luck with your defenseless strategy.

[PhillyKev 0]

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My POINT, if you recall, was that I hadn't SEEN guns except on police, at the range, etc., and you seemed to find that curious.

So you weren't trying to make a point about the absence of guns in places that you frequent? You were just stating an irrelevant observation for the sake of hearing yourself talk.

Come on now, don't back peddle. You were trying to say that if you stay out of dangerous areas that you don't have to worry about people having guns, were you not? Or were you trying to say that all the criminals in the areas that you go to keep their guns well hidden? And if so, what's the point of that statement?