Kerry makes sense here

[PhillyKev 0]

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Bottom line, then: Is Kerry for or against the Patriot Act? Absolutely.



LOLOOL

YEP.

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since no one seems to want to address, but rather throw out the same one liners.

I stand corrected....

[Kennedy 0]

Well, considering they advertise for Liddy, Hannity, and the chick who wrote Slander, I'd say it's a but on the conservative side. Just a tad.

Good article though. Quotes and references. And funny.

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So let's review the bidding: Kerry's position is that he voted against a war he was really for and voted for a war he was really against. But the war he was really for he never said he was for at the time. Except when he was writing to voters to say that he was. And that he wasn't.

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[Kennedy 0]

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The issue of voting against increased defense spending is not really a question which gives any insight into the actual support of our troups. As we know, or as we should know, the Pentagon is not exactly what we would call "frugal" and often cares more for spending money on new "toys" then paying the men and women who put their lives on the line.

I never said he didn't "Support Our Troops." That position's never been popular, so he hasn't gone that far. Though he does seem to be ok with not caring about them. [see winter soldier, anti-war rallies, fonda association]

I do find it amusing that he takes such exception to anyone saying he supported defense cuts. It's kind of public fact that he did after all.

And pulling the broken dreamer "you opened old wounds" was just a joke.

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[billvon 2,435]

>Kerry is against fighting, hands down.

Where did you read that?

I'm against invading other countries based on false pretenses. I am very much in favor of defending our country against all enemies. That doesn't make me against fighting, hands down. Sometimes you have to fight. I just think it's a last, instead of a first, resort.

> I don't want someone that will take extra chances with my safety
> just to promote peace because they don't have the stomache for it
> anymore.

You'd prefer someone who used their connections to avoid combat, because they preferred others die? OK, whatever. Personally, I will always vote for the guy who gives us even a fragile peace over World War III. World War III might just affect you.

>I like my way of life. I don't want that to change. Kerry would allow it to.

Your life has changed far more under GWB than under any previous president. Your phone can now be tapped and your email read with no reason given. You can be arrested and taken to a military prison without ever being charged, without being allowed to see a lawyer, and without any recourse. That's just a bit of a change.

And, of course, you can now be killed by terrorists. GWB's watch has seen the first chemical and biological attacks against our government, and it saw 9/11. You want another four years like that? (You could always be killed by terrorists, of course, but most people didn't realize that until 9/11.)

[Kennedy 0]

So what do you claim Bush did wrong, starting from about 11:00am Sept 11th 2001?
[concerning your "unless you keep us in office" statement]

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[PhillyKev 0]

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So what do you claim Bush did wrong, starting from about 11:00am Sept 11th 2001?

I'll take a stab at this...just off the cuff:

Not finish the job in Afghanistan

Take us to war in Iraq under false pretenses

Direct his attorney general to concentrate on Tommy Chong and other sellers of pipes instead of corporate thieves.

Do everything legally possible through loopholes and deception in order to consolidate power in the executive branch.

Piss off every nation that rallied behind us.

Increase gov't spending and put through initiatives like going to mars and completing obsolete missile defense systems while cutting education, health care, and law enforcement budgets.

Lots more....that's just what pisses me off about him this minute.

[JohnRich 4]

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the "war on terrorism" will never be won. Never.

And what are you trying to imply from that? That we shouldn't even try to keep the terrorists at bay, and to take the fight to them, instead of giving them free reign to do as they please in our own homeland?

That "never" comment is so ironic, coming just one message prior to when you said this;

"I happen to think there are areas in between saying "no don't worry, we won't bother you, what your doing is fine" and "let's rumble". I realize that it may be difficult for some to recognize gray areas, or steps in between but they do exist."

So, don't you think that fighting terrorism where it originates, instead of waiting for it to happen on our own turf, constitutes one of these "in between steps" you talk about?

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Bush has no real plans to end terrorism

So far the only thing I've heard you offer as a solution is to give France and Germany some of the contracts to rebuild Iraq - and you have yet to explain how that will stop or reduce terrorism...

[Kennedy 0]

I was referring back to benny and his claim that Bush acted improperly directly following 9/11.

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[JohnRich 4]

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So what do you claim Bush did wrong, starting from about 11:00am Sept 11th 2001?

Not finish the job in Afghanistan

Um, the job is still underway in Afghanistan. You can't say it's "unfinished", when we're still doing it. And no one ever promised a fixed ending date for the work there.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Um, the job is still underway in Afghanistan. You can't say it's "unfinished", when we're still doing it.

The Taliban has been reforming and attacks have been increasing ever since we started concentrating on Iraq. All the while, the number of our troops in Afghanistan has been decreasing. At this rate, there never WILL be an end date.

[JohnRich 4]

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the number of our troops in Afghanistan has been decreasing. At this rate, there never WILL be an end date.

Eat your words:

"The Pentagon is moving elements of a supersecret commando unit from Iraq to the Afghanistan theater to step up the hunt for Osama bin Laden..."

Full Story

[Guest]

Please fix yer clickies....

mh

.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 2,435]

>So what do you claim Bush did wrong, starting from about 11:00am Sept 11th 2001?

I think the first thing he did wrong was to sit there, listening to second graders read stories, for over five minutes after his chief of staff told him "A second plane has hit the tower, America is under attack." Listen to second graders read stories or deal with an attack on the United States? Shouldn't be a tough decision.

[Kennedy 0]

Not THAT qualifies as an action to criticize, if it went down like that.

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[PhillyKev 0]

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Not THAT qualifies as an action to criticize, if it went down like that.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/bush-911.htm

[kallend 1,651]

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the number of our troops in Afghanistan has been decreasing. At this rate, there never WILL be an end date.

Eat your words:

"The Pentagon is moving elements of a supersecret commando unit from Iraq to the Afghanistan theater to step up the hunt for Osama bin Laden..."

Full Story

Can't be that supersecret now, can it? Sounds more like the PR machine in action.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,435]

>Not THAT qualifies as an action to criticize, if it went down like that.

My mistake; he listened to the kids for at least five minutes per the available video. See the website listed above for the video. His first meeting with Rice, Card and company wasn't until over 20 minutes later, but for all we know he may have been watching CNN to get up to date during that time. People who were there say he hung around the classroom for a lot longer than 5 minutes, but the video ends at that point, so there's no proof of that.

[PhillyKev 0]

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the number of our troops in Afghanistan has been decreasing. At this rate, there never WILL be an end date.

Eat your words:

"The Pentagon is moving elements of a supersecret commando unit from Iraq to the Afghanistan theater to step up the hunt for Osama bin Laden..."

Full Story

What words am I supposed to eat. A small task force traded for thousands of troops. I said there are less troops now, your post doesn't change that.

[PhillyKev 0]

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>Not THAT qualifies as an action to criticize, if it went down like that.

My mistake; he listened to the kids for five minutes. See the website listed above for the video. His first meeting with Rice, Card and company wasn't until over 20 minutes later, but for all we know he may have been watching CNN to get up to date during that time.

Don't be ridiculous, Bill. You know as well as I do that he was watching FOX news, not CNN

[Kennedy 0]

I call that screwed up. No argument from me there. I also have questioned his not addressing the nation sooner. But overall, I'd say he handled 9/11 as well as you could have expected a president to handle it.

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[SkydiverRick 0]

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Well Rick, I for one feel that my own safety is better promoted by a leader who doesn't take actions to provoke those who already are or are on the brink of hating us. "Bring it on" might be a good rallying cry for the troops themselves but said in front of the global media? Let's think about what he's saying: "Go ahead, attack us. Please attack us. We'll kick your ass, sure you may kill some of our citizens but in the end, we'll kick your ass." This president simply has a problem with, rather an absolute lack of diplomacy. "Speak softly and carry a big stick." GWB wasn't paying attention to the speak softly part.

I think that we are stronger with a president that says "Bring it on", than with a flip flopping war protester. Kerry doesn't seem to have a problem with the phrase "Bring it on", he says it every chance he gets.

never pull low......unless you are

[SkydiverRick 0]

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Well Rick, I for one feel that my own safety is better promoted by a leader who doesn't take actions to provoke those who already are or are on the brink of hating us. "Bring it on" might be a good rallying cry for the troops themselves but said in front of the global media?

The people that Bush said "bring it on" to already hate us.

never pull low......unless you are

[Ron 7]

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And, of course, you can now be killed by terrorists. GWB's watch has seen the first chemical and biological attacks against our government, and it saw 9/11. You want another four years like that?

9/11 was being planned BEFORE the bush whitehouse.

And the first WTC bombing was under Clinton.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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A little simplistic, don't you think? He voted to allow the president to use the military against Iraq as a last resort if UN inspections failed

He voted against the first war when that was the popular side and wanted more nations involved....Then he later said he supported it. When it went well and was a popular war.

He voted FOR this one, which was popular...Then bitched about it when it became unpopular.

Seems like this guy votes with the wind...Then plays politics to be on both sides.

For and against both wars.

A hero when its cool, and a protester when its "in".

Says he backs defense, but votes for cutbacks.

Crys about people bringing up his defense spending cuts, but was more than happy to stand a testify about how we did bad things in Vietnam. (not him of course). All the time crying about "opening old wounds".

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In the letter to Bush Saturday, Kerry wrote: "As you well know, Vietnam was a very difficult and painful period in our nation's history, and the struggle for our veterans continues. So, it has been hard to believe that you would choose to reopen these wounds for your personal political gain. But, that is what you have chosen to do."

So its bad to talk about Vietnam now...But it was OK to bash it while our troops were still there...And his voice was the one the guys that were captured heard while being tortured....Who is causeing open wounds?

WRITES part for the patriot act...When it was the popular thing to do...Then bashes his own child when it becomes unpoplular.

All the time pretenting to never change sides....This guy IS a master politician. He never really talks about his plans...And you can't nail him down to one side of any issue.

He is a master at manipulating the issues...Hell he is on both sides at the same time.

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No, as Bill asked, where's the example of this. I haven't heard anyone call him a war hero except Bush supporters who only say it followed by "but..."

For you and Bill

How about this: from Here

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A close associate hints: There's a secret compartment in Kerry's briefcase. He carries the black attaché everywhere. Asked about it on several occasions, Kerry brushed it aside. Finally, trapped in an interview, he exhaled and clicked open his case.

"Who told you?" he demanded as he reached inside. "My friends don't know about this."

The hat was a little mildewy. The green camouflage was fading, the seams fraying.

"My good luck hat," Kerry said, happy to see it. "Given to me by a CIA guy as we went in for a special mission in Cambodia."

Kerry put on the hat, pulling the brim over his forehead. His blue button-down shirt and tie clashed with the camouflage. He pointed his finger and raised his thumb, creating an imaginary gun.

Sounds to me like he is playing the war hero...

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Kennedy 0]

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Your life has changed far more under GWB than under any previous president.

FDR: WWII, social security, government involvement in uncharted area, start of Cold War, rise to Super Power. Maybe not more than any previous president.

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Your phone can now be tapped and your email read with no reason given. You can be arrested and taken to a military prison without ever being charged, without being allowed to see a lawyer, and without any recourse. That's just a bit of a change.

That's also not really new. It just got more press this time around. We've been doing the phone thing since Hoover, the e-mail thing since at least Carnivore, and the prison thing since Lincoln.

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And, of course, you can now be killed by terrorists. GWB's watch has seen the first chemical and biological attacks against our government, and it saw 9/11. You want another four years like that? (You could always be killed by terrorists, of course, but most people didn't realize that until 9/11.)

WTC Bombing - bin Laden. Oklahoma Cty - McVeigh. Unabomber - I can't spell it.

And you really think the Bush administration caused 9/11? Right, bin Laden and all the guys he's financed had no reason to hate us before. ahem, since the 60s, cough.

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