Personal experience with a rigger

[riggerrob 561]

During November 2002, I trained 8 new riggers in Farnham, Quebec. They included all three Lemay boys, plus guys from Ottawa, Rouyen-Noranda (sp?), etc.
Try contacting them.
If you are still angry, try contacting Andre Lemare in Ottawa. Andre is a Master Rigger and sits on CSPA's Technical Committee.

Judging by the evidence posted, this is the standard configuration for Wings ripcord pockets.
The minimum pull force - to extract a ripcord handle - should be 5 pounds, and the maximum 22 pounds (CSPA technical standards, which are based upon FARs).

Maybe you just have a personality clsah with your local Master Rigger.

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

During November 2002, I trained 8 new riggers in Farnham, Quebec. They included all three Lemay boys, plus guys from Ottawa, Rouyen-Noranda (sp?), etc.
Try contacting them.
If you are still angry, try contacting Andre Lemare in Ottawa. Andre is a Master Rigger and sits on CSPA's Technical Committee.

Judging by the evidence posted, this is the standard configuration for Wings ripcord pockets.
The minimum pull force - to extract a ripcord handle - should be 5 pounds, and the maximum 22 pounds (CSPA technical standards, which are based upon FARs).

Maybe you just have a personality clsah with your local Master Rigger.

Those numbers you mention, 5 lbs and 22 lbs, I was always told they were the limits for extracting the pin, and that they were to be measured without the seal thread.

I never heard anyone say numbers regarding extracting the ripcord handle from the ripcord pocket.

Do the same numbers apply?

[riggerrob 561]

Yes, minimum 5 pounds and maximum 22 pounds are for extracting the pin.
I always extrapolated them to also mean minimum and maximum for extracting the handle from the pocket. Let's face it, if you can extract a handle with less than 5 pounds pull, you risk dropping it while walking to the airplane. That is the primary reason all cutaway handles have Velcro, because properly maintained cutaway cable provide less than 5 pounds friction.

[riggerrob 561]

Correction, it was November 2007 when I taught that CSPA Rigger A course in Farnham, Quebec, almost 3 years ago.

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

Yes, minimum 5 pounds and maximum 22 pounds are for extracting the pin.
I always extrapolated them to also mean minimum and maximum for extracting the handle from the pocket. Let's face it, if you can extract a handle with less than 5 pounds pull, you risk dropping it while walking to the airplane. That is the primary reason all cutaway handles have Velcro, because properly maintained cutaway cable provide less than 5 pounds friction.

Okay, thanks.

Just wondering...

The old cloverleaf and/or Martin-Baker handles were stowed in an elastic keeper.

Any idea what it took to extract them?

Would they stay in place in today's environments?

[riggerrob 561]

Quote

Quote

Yes, minimum 5 pounds and maximum 22 pounds are for extracting the pin.
I always extrapolated them to also mean minimum and maximum for extracting the handle from the pocket. Let's face it, if you can extract a handle with less than 5 pounds pull, you risk dropping it while walking to the airplane. That is the primary reason all cutaway handles have Velcro, because properly maintained cutaway cable provide less than 5 pounds friction.

Okay, thanks.


Just wondering...

The old cloverleaf and/or Martin-Baker handles were stowed in an elastic keeper.

Any idea what it took to extract them?

Would they stay in place in today's environments?

............................................................................................

You needed to pull about 10 pounds to extract an old Martin-Baker handle from the elastic. When the elastic stretched to the point that it required less than 5 pounds, we used to sew in a new piece of elastic.

Trivia: several ejection seats use spring steel pockets to hold their Martin-Baker handles. It was a simple matter to spread or squeeze the steel to adjust pull force.

[micduran 0]

I had the exact same problem on my Wings container.
I would be sure the reserve handle was securely in place. It would be out by the time I walked to the plane.
Sometimes it would fall out when I picked up the rig.
A lot of time it stayed in place.

I sent it to Wings and they replaced the handle. Still had the problem.

Got another handle. Still had the problem.

I had the "pocket" where the handle get secured adjusted. Still had the problem.

Finally had a pillow type handle put on. Problem is gone.

Based on my experience I would say your problem is with your rig, not your rigger.

Be patient with the faults of others; they have to be patient with yours.

[erdnarob 1]

Are you sure that the pilot chute pocket/velcro location on your rig has been well made ? Compare it to another container of the same manufacturer.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[d123 1]

Time has passed and now I'm in a state where I'm puting my attention into the future, into fixing this instead of understanding why. I'll buy soon a pillow reserve handle. I don't want this all back and forth and back and forth, I just want to fly my sabre2. Things didn't work out smoothly maybe because of me, maybe not but the only thing that I can now do to help someone else is to tell wings about this and give up on the metal handle. I'm focusing on my main parachute my sabre2. I know that there are different risks with pillow I don't know them all and probably nobody does but still there are people out there who get along fine with pillows.

My appologies to everybody who felt bad from my actions and thanks to everybody who put time into this thread.

Regards,
Jean-Arthur Deda.

Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls!