eyahoo 0 #1 September 22, 2008 QuoteQuote Is there a culture among the old timers of resisting AADs? Not with this old timer. Condolences to all. Here’s my spin and advice on the subject of old timers: Kids: Buy your toys NOW while you are young and have no commitments. When you get married (and that’s a dumb idea IMHO, but that is another subject) you won’t have the money to buy the stuff you really want unless you are Bill Gates. Hence the Cypres will always be one of those items on your Christmas list that never gets delivered. Then, if god forbid, you get divorced, you are really screwed! Alimony! Child Support! Extraordinary Expenses.(GOD I FRICKIN HATE SUMMER CAMP!!!) You will be so poor its hard to justify 2 loads a month, never mind thinking about a AAD. Yes, I am an old timer. Yes, I got screwed. And yes, I am poor. Good thing I got all my gear before I got married!. So like the poster above mentions, given a choice, I choose to skydive without an AAD because I cant afford one. I don’t like it one bit but what choice do I have? I’m not going to give up skydiving because of it. I know the risk I run but that’s what makes this sport great- I know the risks and I take the necessary precautions to minimize them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianfry713 0 #2 September 22, 2008 Yes new AADs are expensive unless you can somehow get a good deal on them. Yes good value used AADs are hard to come by and in high demand, but keep looking and asking around. I recently bought a 10 year old Cypres with the 8 year done and a repack cycle left on the battery for $200. A lot of people spend more than that on a day of jumping or tunnel flying. You don't have to give up skydiving to afford an AAD, just work more, pack a bunch of rigs, or give up something else. A brand new Cypres 2 is not the only AAD out there, also consider the Vigil, Argus, and Astra. Of course it's your money and your life so it's your choice.BASE 1224, Senior Parachute Rigger, CPL ASEL IA, AGI, IGI USPA Coach & UPT Tandem Instructor, PRO, Altimaster Field Support Representative Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LloydDobbler 2 #3 September 22, 2008 QuoteI know the risk I run but that’s what makes this sport great- I know the risks and I take the necessary precautions to minimize them. (Side note - I just re-read my post, and thought it might read like I'm doing some newbie scolding. That's not my intent at all. This isn't directed at you, eyahoo - I'm agreeing with you 100%.) In this instance, if it's truly the case that there was a medical issue, it seems there's not a lot to argue about - the only thing that might have broken the chain of events was an AAD. And you make a good point - using an AAD does depend on personal circumstances, to a large extent. But like most everything in skydiving, it's ultimately your choice. You jump without one, you take your chances. You jump with one, you take your chances as well. But ultimately, it's your choice as to which is more important, and you may have to own the outcome. Or, in the way a good friend of mine put it, "If I was to go in from a no pull with $1300 in the bank somewhere, that would really piss me off wherever I wind up in the afterlife." Personally, I jumped without one for ~150 jumps until I had that money in the bank, then went and bought one. Condolences to the family & friends. With as many old-timers as I've jumped with, I've heard my share of stories and can totally understand how age-old prejudices against AOD's continue on today. Not sure if that was the issue here, but if it was, not sure that there's anything that can be done about it...save to learn from this incident (just like many did when Al Frisby was saved by his Cypres).Signatures are the new black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #4 September 22, 2008 >Kids: Buy your toys NOW while you are young and have no commitments. I'd suggest the opposite as a general rule. Kids - stay in college, get a job, jump on the weekends. Make money so you can afford to jump enough to stay current and to get safe gear. Putting yourself into debt to the extent that you can't afford good gear and/or can't afford to stay current isn't a great solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoobrothertom 5 #5 September 23, 2008 Quote >Kids: Buy your toys NOW while you are young and have no commitments. I'd suggest the opposite as a general rule. Kids - stay in college, get a job, jump on the weekends. Make money so you can afford to jump enough to stay current and to get safe gear. Putting yourself into debt to the extent that you can't afford good gear and/or can't afford to stay current isn't a great solution. or maybe somewhere in the middle - Kids: get an education, job and save money. Then buy your toys before you get married.____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #6 September 23, 2008 Yes, I am an old timer. Yes, I got screwed. And yes, I am poor. Good thing I got all my gear before I got married!. So like the poster above mentions, given a choice, I choose to skydive without an AAD because I cant afford one. I don’t like it one bit but what choice do I have? I’m not going to give up skydiving because of it. I know the risk I run but that’s what makes this sport great- I know the risks and I take the necessary precautions to minimize them. Quote Another old school old timer here... No didn't get screwed, not poor I guess, but then again even when I had nothing I never thought I was, and always seemed to be able to afford the things I thought were 'necessary'. Yet still...I don't use an AOD/AAD and never have had one other than on Tandems, and I haven't done any of those in ten years. Fatalities such as the one that sparked this branched off thread do give me pause to analyse my choice. Hell...I've got enough cash on me right now to buy one but for some reason I guess I just don't feel it's a 'necessary' piece of skydiving equipment for me and the type of jumping I do. I am slowly moving into the 21st century, retired the frap hat I bought from Tony 25 years ago and got a fancy fiber anti melon musher...open face of course!Who knows, maybe one of these days I'll go ahead and bite the bullet so to speak...it's just hard to to put the training wheels back on after having ridden this far without 'em. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #7 September 23, 2008 Quote ...it's just hard to to put the training wheels back on after having ridden this far without 'em. Even Chuck Yeager flew with an ejection seat. _____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #8 September 23, 2008 Quote Quote ...it's just hard to to put the training wheels back on after having ridden this far without 'em. Even Chuck Yeager flew with an ejection seat. Yeah...and it was the pyrotechnic charge in it that almost killed him in the X-15 flat spin egress. Then again, maybe an AAD would have helped Joe Svec survive the re-enactment. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #9 September 23, 2008 Quote Yeah...and it was the pyrotechnic charge in it that almost killed him in the X-15 flat spin egress. Then again, maybe an AAD would have helped Joe Svec survive the re-enactment. Not to split hairs, but it was an NF-104A, the rocket-augmented F-104. That ejection was pretty gnarly, but it still beat the alternative. And, yes, Joe Svec would have been way better off with an AAD. I always thought that was the wierdest thing...one guy survives the most dangerous incident and another guy dies doing a "safe" re-enactment of it.So...will you be getting that AAD now ? Kevin K. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 262 #10 September 23, 2008 Quote Even Chuck Yeager flew with an ejection seat. Not in the original Bell X-1 which made him famous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #11 September 23, 2008 So...will you be getting that AAD now ? Quote Maybe one of these days.... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #12 September 23, 2008 Quote Quote Even Chuck Yeager flew with an ejection seat. Not in the original Bell X-1 which made him famous. Nor in any of the Boeing crowd killers that he was the test pilot on. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squarecanopy 0 #13 September 23, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Even Chuck Yeager flew with an ejection seat. Not in the original Bell X-1 which made him famous. Nor in any of the Boeing crowd killers that he was the test pilot on. Pardon my ignorance-I am not aware that Yeager ever flew for Boeing. Please expand on this! Or PM me if you don't want to hijack this thread. Thanks! Just burning a hole in the sky..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
