20 year life on gear

[riggerrob 558]

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Just wanted to bring this up to the attention of people who care.

Take a look at the new Softie (ParaPhernalia) Manual, revised 08/09. Specifically look at page 10, section 1.4

1.4 SERVICE LIFE
Independent testing of aged nylon materials has proven that its strength degrades over time, therefore, Para-Phernalia, Inc. and Free Flight Enterprises have established a 20-year service life from the date of component manufacture for the Softie Pilot Emergency System and the Preserve
line of emergency parachutes.

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Back story ... Rigger Charlie Karken told me that Dan T. changed the policy to "max twenty years" after a thoroughly ratty pile of glider parachutes came through Para-Phernalia.

[councilman24 36]

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And another note from the same guy :

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You are quoting yourself!
You know the truth, because of your use of the word "U.S.".
While the remaining part of the world adheres to a 10 year rule definitly on the reserve.
Quoting the PIA, "many manufacturers do put service life limits on their products. Some are for the general customer like Securities 15 year life on the 350 type pilot rigs and PD's 40 pack jobs or 25 jumps before reevaluation by the factory. Manufacturers are happy to supply this number.

PIA Rigging Committee Chairman"

Also.."
Another quote..." parachutes over 20-yrs. old, I do, 'fore-warn' them about the possibility of 'failure'."
You know and I know as a chemist, that ALL man made materials will revert to their natural state, meaning ALL man made materials weaken over time, "ashes to ashes, dust to dust."
The WORLD, except USA, has a 10 year rule, based on safety, NOT greed for money!

to which I reply :

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John, I don't care for this debate. I present the information I know and believe in both as an individual and an FAA rated rigger. It's a fact that I and you are both listed in the US. It's also a fact that nylon is most degraded by SUNLIGHT and NOT by proper storage. Please list 5 countries in the world that MANDATE 10 year life on gear.

Which PIA Rigging chairman did he think he was quoting? There have only been three in a long time. Allen Silver, Ellen Bussemaker (sp) and me (currently again - interim). I'm not sure how he thinks this quote supports his argument. And some of it could be me, some doesn't quite sound like me but might be. But it certainly is out of context. I think the rest of this had to do with government contracts and service life requirements.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 36]

Talked to my local FAA inspector.

His opinion, the latest version of the manual applies retroactively. Things packed before August 09 (date of manual) more than 20 years old still in date are good to go through the 180 days.

Talked to Dan T., President Paraphernalia.

Intended to be retroactive. There is a trade in value for a direct factory purchase by a customer affected by this change.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 558]

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I couldn't agree more. The reason I'm asking is that PA containers are common in gliders in NZ and I would think Australia. It's not fun telling the owners that there containers are grounded because it's been mandated by the manufacturer. Any recommendations for replacement containers?

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Several other manufacturers make decent PEPs, but most of them also state maximum service lives.

Butler - 20 years
GQ Security/Defence/Airborne Systems - 15 years with a "critical inspection after ten years"

National - 20 years
Parachutes Australia - 20 years
Para-Phernalia - 20 years
Rigging Innovations - 15 years

Yes, carefully stored "closet queens" may still be airworthy after more than 20 years, but they may also be obsolete or suffer from a long list of Airworthiness Directives, Service Bulletins, etc.
It is difficult to expect young riggers to understand all the old ADs, SBs, etc.
The worst AD is the dreaded acid mesh.
Personally, I wish all the round canopies affected by the acid mesh Al would quietly retire.

[councilman24 36]

As far as I'm concerned they are retired. They should all be 20 years old now. Whether a legal mandate or a rigger preference I'm done.

BUT, I've found a ram air reserve with fabric that behaved exactly the same. Tissue paper in on place and fine a few inches away on the same panel. Tore at 3 or 4 pounds.

Just because the rounds are gone doesn't mean the problem is gone. I actually believe this was a similar degradation pathway. Still unidentified unless Dupont figured it out and didn't tell anyone. No mesh involved but a coated free bag involved.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[erdnarob 1]

I believe you got your answer but I would add that if the gear life limitation would have been 15 or 20 years in the 60's-70's and even in the 80's, well the parachuting would be now quite different or wouldn't exist at all since at the time, we were using army surplus. That made possible for the sport parachuting to get more and more popular paving that way the road for what we have now. We are rigger or have access to them, therefore we have to use our judgment if the gear are airworthy or not. Airplanes having more than 20 years are common even among airlines and military. DC-3 are 60 years + old and 1000 of them are still flying in the world. Why do some people want to wash more white than white ?

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[riggerrob 558]

" ... BUT, I've found a ram air reserve with fabric that behaved exactly the same. Tissue paper in on place and fine a few inches away on the same panel. Tore at 3 or 4 pounds.

Just because the rounds are gone doesn't mean the problem is gone. I actually believe this was a similar degradation pathway. Still unidentified unless Dupont figured it out and didn't tell anyone. No mesh involved but a coated free bag involved.