Life/health insurance?

[bazelos 0]

I don't have a bad feeling about jumping, nor do I think that anything is ever going to go bad, but I do want to have an insurance just in case. Now, for the very basic, is it a health insurance that I am after? Or a life? Also, will the insurance company ask me about skydiving, or any other sports that I might be doing, or willing to do? How much do I expect to pay (very roughly).

Better be safe than sorry I guess!

He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.

[skymama 35]

Health insurance is for your benefit if you get hurt, Life insurance is for your loved ones after you die. In the very least, you need Health insurance. As for the cost, it all depends on your plan, deductable, sex, age, etc.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[NWFlyer 2]

A search on health insurance will find lots of information. This subject has been discussed a lot on these forums.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[jshatzkin 0]

As far as life insurance, in my experience, they do ask about "extreme" activities. Skydiving specifically. In fact, I had to state how much I jump per year..etc. They said had I purchased the policy BEFORE I started skydiving, then the premium would not go up. But, I started after, and I pay $20 more per month than my husband (and he is 8 years older!). The wisest thing is to have the insurance before you ever get into this sport (or scuba diving). BASE jumping jacks your premiums double what skydiving does (for good reason!)

Jen

[Elisha 1]

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As far as life insurance, in my experience, they do ask about "extreme" activities. Skydiving specifically. In fact, I had to state how much I jump per year..etc. They said had I purchased the policy BEFORE I started skydiving, then the premium would not go up. But, I started after, and I pay $20 more per month than my husband (and he is 8 years older!). The wisest thing is to have the insurance before you ever get into this sport (or scuba diving). BASE jumping jacks your premiums double what skydiving does (for good reason!)

Yes....and a good way to get "cheaper" (i.e. lower premiums) Life Ins is through your employer if you work in a corporate setting. Many corporate jobs have "free" Life Ins (i.e. as a benefit) 1-2x your annual salary with an option to increase the multiplier of to a maxium amount or multiplier by paying extra. With a Group Life policy that an employer buys from an insurer for it's employees, the insurer doesn't individually underwrite the employees, but would charge the company premiums (passed on to the employees for over the "free" policy amount) based on the overall group risk characteristics. For example, the employer would probably be charged more per employee for a Manufacturing company vs Bank employees.

The vast majority of Group Life policies are 24 hour coverage, without hazardous sport exclusions.

Your worker's comp policy, on the other hand, will not cover your skiing accident, unless your boss is requiring you to go skiing as a condition of employment....and that is what your company Health Insurance is for.

[porterhouse 0]

HEALTH INSURANCE:
If there is any way you can obtain it, you should DEFINATELY get health insurance if you are looking to get into jumping. The least expensive way to obtain coverage is through an employer. If you can't get health insurance through your employer, it will cost you a few hundred dollars per month. That may seem like a lot, but I had a friend who decided he was going to "save" himself some money by not signing up for health insurance....a few months later he slipped and broke his elbow. His surgery costs him over $38,000, which he had to pay out of pocket (hello home equity loan!)....great way to "save" huh?

LIFE INSURANCE:
As for life insurance, if you don't have any significant others (I.E. you're not married, you don't have any kids, or anyone else who relies on you), then you don't need life insurance. If you do, there's basically two kinds of life insurance. Standard life insurance is in case you die of natural causes (say, for example, you die of cancer). Then there's accidental death insurance, which is paid if you died in an accident (i.e. skydiving). I recently had a friend who works in financial planning and insurance look into this for me. And from what he found, the only way to obtain any kind of life insurance that will cover a skydiver (whether standard or accidental death) is if you get it through a group plan administered by an employer. (BTW If anyone out there knows of any reputable insurance companies that will cover a skydiver at a reasonable cost, please PM me).

Hope this helps!

Good luck!

[cameramonkey 0]

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I recently had a friend who works in financial planning and insurance look into this for me. And from what he found, the only way to obtain any kind of life insurance that will cover a skydiver (whether standard or accidental death) is if you get it through a group plan administered by an employer. (BTW If anyone out there knows of any reputable insurance companies that will cover a skydiver at a reasonable cost, please PM me).

Apparently your planner didnt look as hard as mine did. I have a life insurance policy through Guardian that doesnt care about skydiving.

I can skydive all I want. I can Fly an airplane for a little more money/month. They wont touch me if I am doing both. Luckilly I dont fly anymore.

Two wrongs don't make a right, however three lefts DO!

[bazelos 0]

Didn't think to search for it, my bad! But loads of info there!

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it will cost you a few hundred dollars per month

Jesus! I only just make a few hundred per month, most of it will go for the jumps, and the (very few left) is going for secondary stuff, like food and clothes I know a guy who works for an insurance broker, they check what the best deal is for me then they tell me how much it is...now if it's, say, 60 bucks a month, I am good, but anything more than that I really can't affort it
But surely there must be not-so-expensive insurances around?

He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.

[Paige 0]

If you are in the US, Anthen Blue Cross & Blue Shield has individual PPO plans for cheap. It covers skydiving.

If you can't afford insurance you should consider if you can really afford jumping. My accident w. the Anthem BCBS insurance was still at least $100,000. That's a very low side estimate.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Elisha 1]

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Didn't think to search for it, my bad! But loads of info there!

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it will cost you a few hundred dollars per month

Jesus! I only just make a few hundred per month, most of it will go for the jumps, and the (very few left) is going for secondary stuff, like food and clothes I know a guy who works for an insurance broker, they check what the best deal is for me then they tell me how much it is...now if it's, say, 60 bucks a month, I am good, but anything more than that I really can't affort it
But surely there must be not-so-expensive insurances around?

Go back to the search link NWFlyer posted. Health Insurance only for major accidents is discussed. You should have this at minimum to prevent another Shayna Richardson situation (situation being not being able to pay for $$$$$ medical bills after a skydiving accident).

[jshatzkin 0]

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the only way to obtain any kind of life insurance that will cover a skydiver (whether standard or accidental death) is if you get it through a group plan administered by an employer

Your friend has misinformed you. I have employer insurance (3 x my annual salary), but I also purchased a $250,000 whole life and annuity (I can cash it in as retirement at age 59) AFTER I started skydiving. That was part of the interview question. I also had to have a full physical and psych eval. They even wanted to know if I had ever had a drop of alcohol, touched a drug or cigarette. That all increases your liability too. My rate would have been lower, but due to skydiving I pay $170. This is a fixed premium for my life. And I can choose to cash out anytime what I have put in. If I wait until retirement, I can cash $$ put in, plus investment interest. This is through Liberty Life Insurance. There are plenty of non-employer life insurance/annuity programs out there. I suggest seeing a certified financial planner. I have had one for 8 years and it pays off well!

Jen

[Channman 2]

jshatzkin,

Money January 1995, had a very good article concerning Cash Value Policies.

As you have mentioned you have a $250,000 Whole Life policy and annuity, is the annuity part of the policy such as a varible policy that has an underlining investment attached to it? or are the two seperate.

As you may know there is no cash value in a whole life policy for the first two to three years. Its kind of like making deposits into your bank account and the bank keeps 100% of the deposits with no benefit to you or your family. As the cash value builds over time the only way you can get access to your so called cash (by the way its no longer your cash/money because you gave up ownership of it) is to borrow it and pay it back with interest. In your normal bank account that you pay bills with there is no such penalty, your money is your money.

The cash value is actually part of the death benefit, and is designed to transfer the risk to the policy owner and away from the insurance company over time. Say for example: what does your family get if you die? $250,000 plus the cash value? (NO) they only get the one or the other. If say you have 30,000 in cash value over the next 20 plus years and you deside to borrow 25,000 out i.e. your money at any where between 5.5% to 8.5% depending on the company you place the policy in jeopardy of lapsing if you don't pay the large payment plus premium to keep the policy in force. (Note) Any unpayed loans plus interest will be deducted from the remain cash value. Trying to keep this simple.

At death the company take $5,000 remaining cash value and $220,000 from their accounts and pay $225,000 because you have already taken 25,000 from the death benefit as a loan.

But lets say you do not take a loan and you are killed in an accident the company takes your so called cash value $30,000 plus $220,000 from the company and pays the beneficiaries $250,000 provided there are no out standing loans on the policy. This is a win / win for the insurance company because they have free use of your cash and will make millions on the return over say 30 years and at the same time transfer the risk to you.

One last thing, insurance companies go through reinsurers to transfer their risk and take out a term policy on your life at 12 to 15 times less than the payment your are making to them.

Simply put, you are far better off purchasing Term insurance to cover your immediate cash needs say 20-35 year level term. Not only will this save you a great deal of money but will allow you to take the difference in premium to Invest for your own future and you have control over your life policy and your investment putting you into a position to gain wealth over time and not the insurance company.

There is also a real possiblity that you may not be paying the targeted premium to keep the policy in force and my have a policy that will lapse without value in the near future.

[jshatzkin 0]

Yep. You are right. I think I used the term annuity,...but it is a cash value. LEt's say I pay in $180 per month for x years. If I choose to cash out, I do end up getting less cash than I put in. However, the longer I wait, the closer the gap becomes. At 36 years (which would put me at age 65) I would have put in $77760 and the cash value would be 74600 if I choose to cash out for retirement. (I'm not counting on social security). But, I did not purchase this policy for that, and will likely not ever cash out and leave the $$ to my survivors. It's good to have that security, if you ever need it. Now the key is good diverse investing. If this were my only investment, I could see how you would recommend buying cheaper term and investing the rest. That would make sense if someone had no other investments or savings.

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you are far better off purchasing Term insurance to cover your immediate cash needs say 20-35 year level term. Not only will this save you a great deal of money but will allow you to take the difference in premium to Invest for your own future

However, I already invest over half of my income in stock, money market, mutual funds of all kinds, bonds, state retirement, 401K, IRAs, employer, term and whole life insurance policies. I don't trust (lack of ) government help at retirement I know insurance policies are about making money for the insurance companies. It's true whether it's auto, health or life insurance. That's the name of the game. I could complain that over the past 10 years I have paid thousands of dollars in auto insurance, never had a wreck and won't ever see that $$! As Chris Rock says "It should be called 'in case shit happens' "!

Term life insurance is cheap, but it is also designed to make money. They know that healthy 20-39 year olds have a small chance of dying. So you have a great rate, and than it expires. You never have the opportunity to receive the same rate or have a cash value option. You are just out of money. At least with whole life, the one rate when you start is guaranteed for life. Try getting an affordable $250000 policy at age 45 or 50! I am thinking about the future of my (not yet conceived) offspring! I don't want to retire rich, I just don't want to have to make a choice between buying medications or food. I think we live in a society of immediate gratification, without delayed gratification planning. I could go off on a diatribe about that! Anyway, bottom line is,..no matter what you invest in, companies will make $$ on you. I advise anyone to search around. I still have lots to learn about all this stuff!

Jen

[bazelos 0]

Ok...I just thought of this, I live in the UK, I pay NI as I make over £100 per week, I am covered by the NHS, so I don't need health insurance, do I?

He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.

[Channman 2]

Well I will say you are more savvy than most at your age when it comes to looking down the road. If I could add one last thing in this discussion.

At age 29 you could have a $250,000 standard Non-Smoker policy which would cover your skydiving for about $42.52 in monthly premium.

This would free up about $137.00 per month to invest. There are several Mutual Funds that I invest in that currently have performed very well at 11.44 percent over 40 plus years.

If your where to buy term and then take the difference / savings in premium, you would over 35 years / 420 months mass a savings of $765,816.50. Although I will add there are no guarantees when it comes to investing in the market but we do have historical data that gives us a good indication that over time we have a very good chance of obtaining wealth.

With the Cash Value Policy you would have to wait to age 99 or to age 100 before the policy would endow and be worth $250,000.00.

> I don't want to retire rich, I just don't want to have to make a choice between buying medications or food.

Most people don't realize that they will need more than a million saved if they wish to retire with any quality of life. With inflation running at around 4% if people don't gather the necessary assest they will be one of the 95 out of a 100 that are dead broke or still working.

Cheers to ya, and thanks for the discussion.