Notice of Proposed Rulemaking 180 day inspection cycle

[councilman24 36]

In light of the recent fatality USPA asked PIA if we had any information or position on jumping wet reserves.

Our answer was since they aren't tested wet and we have no information and there are requirement for parachutes to be dry to be packed, don't do it. We didn't define 'wet'.

floormonkey wrote above

"It takes more then a brief immersion to have an effect on a reserve deployment."

I suspect it should say "I don't think..."

AFAIK the only information is anecdotal. I can think of several way a little water MIGHT have an effect. I don't KNOW that it would. And I don't think anybody else does.

Also, not all swoop crashes are "brief immersion".

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[peek 20]

Quote

Today, May 22, 2007, in the United States the Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) to change from 120 days to 180 days the inspection cycle for emergency and reserve parachutes was published in the Federal Register by the FAA.

BUMP and reminder:

Alan Silver, who has done a great deal of work getting this change to this point so far, has dedicated much of the main page of his web site to information about how you can add your comments.

http://www.silverparachutes.com/

Alan encourages everyone to read the instructions first to save time, because to do not need to register to provide comments.

[rehmwa 2]

BUMP - Keeping this one on the front page is useful.

Anyone have the latest? I'm going to the links now.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[councilman24 36]

The next thing will be the publication of the final rule by the FAA. Until then there will be nothing official.

There have been some back channel indications that it will go through but the FAA is unhappy about the lack of comments. I have heard this only third hand.

But remember, we don't know what the final rule may look like. Half of the professional riggers who commented supported a mixed system, 180 days for user owned equipment and 120 days for rental, student, tandem, etc. And the proposed rule left tandem mains at 120 days while everything else went to 180 days.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[rehmwa 2]

I really appreciate your comments, Terry. I did a lot of searching on the status and found nothing but old stuff before bumping this.

I understand the point of the conservative comments about professional use gear. However, I wonder if there is a technical set of data to support it. Most of the comments were on the lines of "this gear sees more use therefore I don't want to change anything". But no hard data on whether that use actually indicated the 180 day cycle is insufficient. Seems that 120 days, 180 days, 365 days, etc are just plucked out of the air.

Is there any study with coherent wear, shift, operability, etc "metrics" that have been done to actually assess pack cycles in an objective way? Or is it just - 'opinion and experience' without data

I apologize if this post just generates a bunch of comments like this "I've been a rigger for ____ years, and I just KNOW my position is right and I don't NEED any data to come to my opinion - nuffsaid" But that's what I've seen mostly.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[pchapman 262]

Idea:
DECOUPLING REPACK and INSPECTION CYCLES:

If there were data like Councilman24 discusses, we'd want to look at what aspect of the pack cycle is being evaluated.

Are we thinking about:
a) the ability of the reserve to open properly,
b) the condition of the reserve in its pack tray, or
c) the condition of the harness/container

The limited info I've heard suggests that opening speed or reliability doesn't change much once the canopy has been packed for a while, and that isn't going to change much whether it has been packed 120, 180, or 365 days.

Say that one accepts that. Then part (b) comes into play. One has to open the reserve container to look inside to see whether the tray is full of desert grit or swoop pond sand.

If one is confident that the reserve container is going to be clean inside, what's left? It's mainly the condition of the harness/container. There's no need to repack a reserve to do a detailed inspection of almost all of the rest of the rig. The rig condition is a separate issue from reserve reliability.

(Actual repairs of course tend to be much easier with the reserve out.)

So the guy concerned with tandem rigs getting chewed up at a busy DZ may not actually be arguing for a 120 day repack cycle. He might argue for a 90 or 120 day inspection cycle, and a lot longer repack cycle.

Theoretically one could have something like a rig inspection every 90 or 120 days for commercial equipment, and a full repack every 180, 240, or 365 days. That rig inspection may or may not include an open & reclose on the container (without a repack), although that creates issues in the current legal & operational environment.

This concept is a bit radical and not about to be FAA implemented, but I think it is useful in understanding some of the different feelings about repack cycle length.

If there is concern over long repack cycles, especially for commercial gear, a DZ (or the USPA) could create a formal inspection cycle that is shorter, which does not include a full repack.

[fcajump 153]

Quote

So the guy concerned with tandem rigs getting chewed up at a busy DZ may not actually be arguing for a 120 day repack cycle. He might argue for a 90 or 120 day inspection cycle, and a lot longer repack cycle.

Its been a little while since I was up on the regs, but Strong (used to?) requires a 25 jump external inspection of the entire system and main canopy. Wanna bet how many DZ's stick to this? (I know, some do, but...)

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[virgin-burner 1]

we have repacks every single year. so, 365 days of jumping straight..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda