How to flare...for a beginner

[erdnarob 1]

I took the habit to post on this forum the questions I am asked on training at my DZ. The question today is the following:
When teaching a beginner (off radio control) how to flare a canopy he is loading at 0.8-0.9 lbs/sf, is it better to ask him to apply 1/4-1/3 brakes at 40-50 feet to slow down the parachute then apply full brakes at 7-10 feet to flare for landing OR ask him to do a flare in one single step by applying full brakes (from full speed) at 8-12 feet for landing.

The 2 step method makes a less powerful final flare but slow dow the canpy then allows the beginner to have more time to judge the exact moment for flaring while the one step method if done at the right time is certainly the best but can lead to serious problems if done too early (possibility of a stall) or to a hard landing if done too late. I would like to have feedback from instructors and interested people on that matter. Thanks

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[humanflite 0]

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I took the habit to post on this forum the questions I am asked on training at my DZ. The question today is the following:
When teaching a beginner (off radio control) how to flare a canopy he is loading at 0.8-0.9 lbs/sf, is it better to ask him to apply 1/4-1/3 brakes at 40-50 feet to slow down the parachute then apply full brakes at 7-10 feet to flare for landing OR ask him to do a flare in one single step by applying full brakes (from full speed) at 8-12 feet for landing.

The 2 step method makes a less powerful final flare but slow dow the canpy then allows the beginner to have more time to judge the exact moment for flaring while the one step method if done at the right time is certainly the best but can lead to serious problems if done too early (possibility of a stall) or to a hard landing if done too late. I would like to have feedback from instructors and interested people on that matter. Thanks

Im not an instructor but I would say it does depend on the canopy the student is jumping...

If, its like some of the student gear I used to jump, as in an old F111 with hundreds and hundreds of jumps, and pretty well used.... the flare is at best 'average' even when done in a single motion,

And a 2 stage has to be timed precisely to avoid a falldown landing.

On more modern student equipment (like the new PD navigators for example) I would personally think that 2 stage is a much better option, they will have more forward speed due to newer design and better materials but will also have more flare power available.

But there is also the student to consider.... If they are spooked for whatever reason, and let up a 'half flare' pretty low, they could end up being injured. The single stage flare removes this possibility from the equation (or reduces the chance)

[erdnarob 1]

The canopy used by this "advanced" student not requiring the radio control anymore is for instance a Sabre 210 which is a ZP canopy and a bit faster than a student F111 280 canopy. I know what you mean by the fact it depends on the student since some of them are unfortunately badly coordinated and will hurt themselves whatever the canopy used. But here I am looking for an average approach which should fit the average student. Thanks.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Feeblemind 1]

Well if the student is off radio then he/she must have shown some degree of canopy skills to progress through the AFF category jumps. It is the instructors responsibility to determine when the student is proficient enough to come off radio.

In addition, it is the responsibility of the student to seek out the knowledge needed to land their parachute. As an AFF-I I personally have not taught braked approaches until the later sign-offs for the students A License which are located in the category "F" section of their yellow card.

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[skybytch 259]

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When teaching a beginner (off radio control) how to flare a canopy he is loading at 0.8-0.9 lbs/sf, is it better to ask him to apply 1/4-1/3 brakes at 40-50 feet to slow down the parachute then apply full brakes at 7-10 feet to flare for landing OR ask him to do a flare in one single step by applying full brakes (from full speed) at 8-12 feet for landing.

By the time someone is off radios, shouldn't they already know how to flare?

But back to the question. My answer is none of the above. Both are building bad habits that will need to be broken later.

Teaching people to go 1/4 brakes at 40 feet is teaching them to give up 25% of their flare power and giving them a false impression of how fast their canopy really flies. Teaching them to flare in one single step works fine on lightly loaded canopies but does nothing to prepare them for landing the parachutes they will actually buy and fly in another 5-10 jumps, and could very well be a cause of injury.

Why not teach in the FJC and reinforce throughout the student program a flare technique that will still work well for the student when they have 500 jumps? Then maybe they won't have to take a basic canopy control course later to learn how to flare correctly...

[Fast 0]

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Quote

When teaching a beginner (off radio control) how to flare a canopy he is loading at 0.8-0.9 lbs/sf, is it better to ask him to apply 1/4-1/3 brakes at 40-50 feet to slow down the parachute then apply full brakes at 7-10 feet to flare for landing OR ask him to do a flare in one single step by applying full brakes (from full speed) at 8-12 feet for landing.

By the time someone is off radios, shouldn't they already know how to flare?

But back to the question. My answer is none of the above. Both are building bad habits that will need to be broken later.

Teaching people to go 1/4 brakes at 40 feet is teaching them to give up 25% of their flare power and giving them a false impression of how fast their canopy really flies. Teaching them to flare in one single step works fine on lightly loaded canopies but does nothing to prepare them for landing the parachutes they will actually buy and fly in another 5-10 jumps, and could very well be a cause of injury.

Why not teach in the FJC and reinforce throughout the student program a flare technique that will still work well for the student when they have 500 jumps? Then maybe they won't have to take a basic canopy control course later to learn how to flare correctly...

Yeah I agree. Our students transition from older F111 canopies to newer ZP canopies at a point once they are into coaching jumps. We have them doing a single pull down flare on the F111 canopies cause thats really the only way to flare them. What I like to teach when transitioning them is that part of the canopy being different is that the flare will respond differently. We have them do quite a few practice flares on that jump.

The point is though, that I teach that flaring is a dynamic process. At the same flare altitude they are used to already from the F111 canopies I teach them to flare "until they are not going down anymore" then start flaring again when they start going down again. That's the theoretical. What the end up doing in practice (and practicing on the ground) is a 2 part flare that starts at normal flare altitude with them pulling the toggles to a bit past shoulder level, pausing and then finishing the flare to their crotch.

Mind you, this is with someone who has never flown a ZP canopy and is used to a single flare stroke.

If I was working with someone who has some idea of what they are doing, but isn't landing well, the method becomes a bit different. I just stick with the dynamics of a flare, cause it's a bit different for everyone and most people have different problems that need to be addressed. I guess it would have to do with the fact that people see things differently and respond to things differently. Some have a hard time not focusing on the ground beneath them and some can't seem to finish a flare even if they think they are. Video helps a lot there.

That's my thoughts!

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[erdnarob 1]

Very interesting post. You know we all want to give the students the best and sometimes, it does't work that well with some of them. Then with the "advanced" student who has some difficulties to flare (a ZP parachute) which is faster than big student F111 canopy, we have to find a way to get him do the job OK. Theory is fine but we need to provide him with tricks, pedagogic means or whatever to have him being successful. This is the goal of my thread. I have tricks and the 2 stage method for landing a ZP new to the student is one of them. I just wanted to see what the other instructors do. The student I am talking about has his solo certificate and has already 24 jumps. Thanks.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Fast 0]

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Very interesting post. You know we all want to give the students the best and sometimes, it does't work that well with some of them. Then with the "advanced" student who has some difficulties to flare (a ZP parachute) which is faster than big student F111 canopy, we have to find a way to get him do the job OK. Theory is fine but we need to provide him with tricks, pedagogic means or whatever to have him being successful. This is the goal of my thread. I have tricks and the 2 stage method for landing a ZP new to the student is one of them. I just wanted to see what the other instructors do. The student I am talking about has his solo certificate and has already 24 jumps. Thanks.

I mentioned that I think video helps a lot but not why. The reason, to me at least, is the same as why we use it for other types of jumps. I think just often the student doesn't listen to me when I am telling them something. In their mind it couldn't possibly be what I am saying, cause how could they not realize they are doing it wrong. They might say "yeah ok that's what I'm doing" but it doesn't really sink in until they see it.

I have also found times where I just plain missed a contributing factor that was leading to why they were doing the thing that I thought was the problem. None the less, it makes me quite happy when someone really does get it!

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[DocPop 1]

Having just been through Luigi Cani's course (again) over the past 2 days, I can tell you that the method he teaches for anyone loading under 1.8 is as follows:

1. Flat turn onto final (upwind) leg at 400 feet.
2. Arms right up for full flight for at least 10 seconds.
3. Flare to 'sweet spot' at 12 feet (sweet spot to be practised by pilot up high on every jump).
4. Finish flare completely when holding the sweet spot no longer maintains horizontal flight.

All this was fine-tuned by video coaching and was very effective in the class which consisted of jump numbers raning from 25 to 8,000.


Hope this is useful.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[erdnarob 1]

A video is a very useful tool especially when taken from sideway. I saw a video of my landing one time and I could really see how high I did my flare and how far down my toggles were at landing. Most of the digital cameras now have a movie mode and the video doesn't have to be very long.
Another trick I have used too and ask the beginners to do as well is speaking loudy to themselves just before the flare. Things like : Symetry with toggles, toggles at shoulders, full brakes, toggles way down...That helps the beginner to concentrate on what they are doing.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[4000m 0]

Hi,
i am a student with 22 jumps now and maybe its interesting for you to hear my experience.

I find the 2 stage flare much better, because for me it is easier to find the final flare point when already on 1/3 brakes. Especially as i jump different canopies, because i jump rental gear at the moment. So if i do 4 jumps a day, i might do 1 jump on a 190 Spectre, another one on a 210 Sabre 2, another one on a Nav 200 and maybe switch back to the Spectre 190 (I know that this is definately not the optimal way of progressing). Puting in around 1/3 brakes at about 30ft. slowes me down and give me a little more time to find the final flare point in ~8ft. height. It also reduces the risk to flare to late or to early.

I don't know if i am building up a bad habbit (if so please tell me), but flaring this ways works great for me and i have 20 standup landings out of 22 jumps. I messed up two landings because i was doing the single flare method this time and flared way to late.

When i will be ready to jump my own gear (i have a Mirage G4 with a Spectre 170 in it), i will get used to the flying and flaring characteristics and probably change my flareing behaviour, but at the moment the 2 stage method works fine for me.


Blue Skies!

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/4000meter
Youtube Favorites: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjnVsp4Epra-PRDETgrF3M04B3X86X1eh

[erdnarob 1]

Thanks 4000m, Hope you have good weather in Ireland. You are just illustrating that the 2 stage method is not too bad after all. I am happy it works for you. As you say it, it gives you a better chance to start precisely the final flare since the canopy is slower. Don't worry you will have plenty of chance in the future to flare in a single motion after more experience gained.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[skygnat 0]

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...there is also the student to consider.... If they... let up a 'half flare' pretty low, they could end up being injured.

This hit the mark in my case, although it was not a result of the two step flaring described here.

On my last landing approach I let up on a half brake to allow me a full flare on landing. But this was done much too low to the ground. I learned a hard lesson on forward surge that swung me forward and put me on the ground much sooner and faster than expected. I barely walked away from this, and a visit to the ER confirmed a minor spinal compression fracture.

As I prepare to jump again soon, this post has offered some good comments that I will discuss with my instructor. I was taught to flare flare flare at the end, and I have had mixed results from very soft to bumpy landings.

[erdnarob 1]

To be precise, I never spoke about half brakes. I said toggles to shoulders first which is 1/4 to 1/3 brakes and that way you still have 3/4 to 2/3 of brakes remaining for the final.

Letting go from half brake near the ground is not a good idea since the parachute will surge forward and down. Just ease up your toggles just a bit and do a full flare when you see you have started your flare too soon.
Tell us more about your recovery and when you will resume your parachute activities.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.