crazydiver 0 #26 January 6, 2005 Quote A more slippery PC is more likely to be pulled out by a flapping bridle and so less likely to result in a horseshoe mal. I'd prefer a premature to a horseshoe... I would much rather have a horseshoe than a premature deployment. Here are the risks I see: Horseshoe: 1. Not having enough airtime left to clear the horseshoe and firing a cypres or bouncing 2. On a small HP canopy, a cutaway is almost inevitable with a horseshoe Premature Deployment: 1. Opening unexpectedly and taking someone out in the process potentially injuring/killing them. 2. Opening unexpectedly on a high speed jump (freeflying/freestyle) and blowing up my main and potentially injuring me, the jumper. 3. On any jump that is not belly to earth, a person risks the main system entangling with body parts/limbs. I would much rather clear a horseshoe that will only potentially injure me than have a preme that not only potentially injures me, but potentially injures other jumpers. Just my $0.02. P.S. I jump both ZP and F-111 pilot chutes. ZP is better worth my money in my opinion cuz it lasts longer, but there is the risk of it slipping out more easily than an F-111 pilot chute. As long as I keep my BOC pouch tight and healthy, the life of ZP entices me more than F-111. Also, for anyone saying a bungee pilot chute will inflate under canopy...I agree, but it would take so much airspeed to inflate it if the bungee is healthy, that very few people I know can inflate one during a dive or swoop. Even if the canopy is small...the person can still fly the parachute ok...not as well as with a collapsed PC, but it will still fly fine. Its like the whole escalator simply turning into stairs when it breaks. A bunge simply turns into a non-collapsable. Not a big deal for one jump if it means you don't risk forgetting to cock and check your pilot chute...which should be done on every jump even if you packed it before and know you cocked it. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #27 January 6, 2005 QuoteSome manufacturers have designed their gear with an F111 and some ZP. I agree with every thing you said exept the part I replied to. Some just simply use what they have for years with out any thought about whether or not it should be ZP or F111. Just a thought... --------------------------- ...I see no reason to use F111 on a skydiving pilot chute. If the gear is modern, it has the correct size pilot chute pouch. Vector II's for example, don't count as modern. The pilot chute has to do one thing and that's pull the canopy out of the container and take it to line stretch. The pilot chute could care less what container it comes out of. A correctly built and sized pilot chute no matter if it's F111 or ZP will do just fine. ZP just lasts longer. My personal preference for any rig is a ZP kill-line collapsible pilot chute. In my opinion, the size of the pilot chute should depend on the size of the canopy, not the container it's dragging the parachute out of.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #28 January 6, 2005 QuoteWell if you jump a bungee, you prolly shouldn't be doing 2k hopnpops, at nighttime or otherwise... Well. It was my best choice. We were supposed to get 3.5k. And back then 2K was not considered low. I had no problem manually extracting it, but the opening was brisk. QuoteBut there are thousands bungee pc's still around, the system is not that bad. There are thousands of velcro rigs around too. I choose not to jump them or sell them because there are better rigs available. Correction: I will sell a used velcro rig under the right circumstances. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #29 January 6, 2005 Some just simply use what they have for years with out any thought about whether or not it should be ZP or F111. Just a thought... -------------------- You mean like Mirage who uses F111 Pilot Chutes? Vector offers both F111 and ZP, and you know how Bill is about R&D. He is the king. I think plenty of thought has gone into the choice of pilot chute that is used in a rig design. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #30 January 6, 2005 QuoteYou mean like Mirage who uses F111 Pilot Chutes? Yes exactly. QuoteVector offers both F111 and ZP, and you know how Bill is about R&D. He is the king. Agreed! Since RWS uses both materials, that leads me to believe that both materials work just fine. One material doesn't wear out as quickly. Thread drift...hehe.. sorry bout that. Answer to the original question. Not too often. There are lots of good reasons to not use a bungee and just go kill-line. I can't think of a good reason to use a bungee. My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #31 January 6, 2005 Quote Agreed! Since RWS uses both materials, that leads me to believe that both materials work just fine. One material doesn't wear out as quickly. I have heard opinions from some people who say that another difference is that the air passing through the F-111 helps the PC to fall more stable and that the ZP is so non permeable that it dances around a little in the process of pulling the pin and unstowing the lines. I prefer ZP, but I have heard a few people say this about ZP and thats why they dont like it as much as the traditional F-111. I know Javelin reccommends F-111 pilot chutes also and provides no testing evidence about ZP pilot chutes. It says so on their website. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #32 January 6, 2005 I agree with you on the choice of material. The pilot chute size and the length of the bridle are important, not what container it is in. With the flaps open they are all about the same. The weight of the canopy, lines and bad should determine what size the pilot chute should be. To big and it will slow the canopy down too much and then at line stretch your weight will accelerate it again and it will hurt. Too small and in can have trouble pulling the bag from the container.. Not doing H&P's with a bungee is an urban myth. If designed and build right they will inflate right around 40 KIAS. That is with a steady pull. A snatch pull will reduce the speed even more. When the right sized PC is matched to the right canopy, I use a 24" ZP with open mesh on a 245 Sharpchuter, they are worry free with very little maintenance. I have jumped them at 65 KIAS out of a Wilga at 2,000 feet many times.SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
