Novice & Canopy question: Silhouette, Sabre, or ???

[mhartboca 0]

new jumper, 23 jumps, currently jumping a PD230 (bought used with about 400 jumps).

my OTD weight is about 250#.

Instructors watching me land say i don't get enough flare from the PD230.

So i'm looking for a ZP main. Right now I can get a sabre 210 for $750 or a Silhouette 210 for about $600. There's also a Sabre230, a Navigator, etc, but these two seem to be at the top of my hit parade.

Pros and cons of either? I've heard the horror stories about the "Sabre snatch". I've also had others tell me they have never experienced it and love the Sabre. The Silhouette is a ZP top/F111 bottom. I've not heard anything at all bad about the Silhouette except possibly resale prices. Everything i've read about the silhouette sounds good.

since the silh is a hybrid, what kind of life can you expect from it? i understand ZP canopies to be multi-1000's of jumps, and F111 to be life limited at about 700 or so. What about a hybrid like the Silh?

additional info:
i'm 46 and VERY conservative - IE, in NO way a hot dog. I want to be able to log thousands of jumps. at my age bones don't heal as quickly.

Michael Hart

[skybytch 259]

I would not recommend a Silhouette 210 to someone with an exit weight of 250. The manufacturer recommends a maximum suspended weight of 252 (see the chart here).

Have you jumped a 210 anything yet? What are your instructors recommending to you as far as sizing goes? Do you want to be going faster on your final approach than you are now (if you jump a zp 210 you will be going faster on final)?

[mhartboca 0]

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I would not recommend a Silhouette 210 to someone with an exit weight of 250. The manufacturer recommends a maximum suspended weight of 252 (see the chart here).

yes, i've seen the charts. the max weight for a PD230 is listed at 230# and i exceed that. EVERYONE i've talked to indicates there's -lots- of safety margin in the tables. I'd have to agree.

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Have you jumped a 210 anything yet? What are your instructors recommending to you as far as sizing goes? Do you want to be going faster on your final approach than you are now (if you jump a zp 210 you will be going faster on final)?

i've jumped a Navigator 220 a few times, my PD230 a few times a sabre 210 twice and a 260 a couple of times. all my instructors and rigger feel, based on watching me fly and land, that a zp210 is fine for me. So far, i'm comfortable with landing all those canopies, except the PD230, which (they've said, having watched me land it) has no flare.

I'm open to suggestion.

Michael Hart

[skybytch 259]

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yes, i've seen the charts. the max weight for a PD230 is listed at 230# and i exceed that. EVERYONE i've talked to indicates there's -lots- of safety margin in the tables. I'd have to agree.

You overload your all F111 230 and it has no flare, right? What makes you think a mostly F111 210 is going to be better - especially if it already has some jumps on it? Yes, it's a zp top skin but it doesn't flare as well as an all zp canopy does (I put 50 or so jumps on a Silhouette a few years ago).

Additionally, there's the longevity factor to consider. Keep the suspended weight under what the manufacturer recommends and you're less likely to have it blow up on you.

I haven't seen you land a canopy, have no idea what kind of canopy control training you've already gotten and what you plan to pursue in the future, and I've never weighed 250 out the door, but.... Personally I don't think an almost 1.2 wingloading at 23 jumps is conservative regardless of what canopy you're flying. Especially if you're concerned about bones that don't heal like they did when you were 20.

[Ruffles 0]

Okay, low-timer here, but I can provide relevant and credible advice on this particular topic because I jump a Sil-210 and I am newbie like yourself.
My exit weight is like 230 which puts me at about 1.1:1.. The first time I jumped it, I thought my hair was on fire. I transitioned from a PD-210. Sil-210 is plenty fast at 1.1. I wouldn't want to try at 1.25, even after 80 some-odd jumps on it. I haven't had any problems landing it and it hasn't scared me yet, but at 1.25 it probably would. Given the last 50 posts in the "incidents" forum, I shouldn't need to convince you that a 230 would be FAR better choice.
For some more detailed words of wisdom from an expert, PM BillVon. He's a huge Silhouette fan and he jumps them regularly. Silhouette is a awesome canopy to learn on, but the 230 is really the only choice for you my friend.

[bsoder 0]

I jump a sil 230. My exit weight is about 270, so my wingload is about 1.17. It's a great canopy, I really like it. I've been told it has a flatter glide than a sabre2, whether or not that's true I'm not sure - I know a sabre2 is flatter than an sabre.

It took me a few jumps at first to figure out the flare on it, but that was because I went from a worn-out Navigator 240 to a brand new sil230, the flare was quite a bit different. :)

[dgskydive 0]

Aerodyne also has the Solo Which is a Hybrid version of the Pilot. I think it is the best beginner canopy out there. You should look into it.

Dom

[JumpCrazy 0]

I have a sil 150. I have about 150 jumps on it loaded at 1.1.

I enjoy it but have only flown a few other parachutes. The sil will not flare as nicely as an all zp canopy but by no means is the flare bad. I still get plenty of surf.........it just takes more of the toggle stroke to get there.

I was just starting to get bored of this wl and parachute but went to Brian's course and suddenly loved to fly the sil 150 again. I will probably keep it for 100 more jumps. It is a good parachute to start on but keep the wingloading to 1.1 or less. Performance deteriorates after that level (I have jumped with up to 15lbs of weight).

Flying Hellfish #470

[JYorkster 0]

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new jumper, 23 jumps

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i'm 46 and VERY conservative

And you want a wing loading of 1.2?

I think the Sabre is a great canopy, but I think you are trying to go too small too early. You already stated the PD230 is not working for you. Granted it's F111, but size DOES matter as well.

Rock