Squeak 17 #1 May 22, 2004 We just got a new Firebolt for one of our tandem rigs. This is from the TM. He states that on his Icarus 340(ish with an exit weight of 215kg he has significantly lighter toggle pressure for flaring than he has on the Brand new Firebolt loaded much light at 170-180kg. He says he needs to used "A LOT" more strength to flare the Firebolt, than any other tandem canopy we fly. The TM is no newcomer, he has at least 4000 tandems. Can any of you Maufacturing types explain why a lighter loaded canopy would have such a higher toggle pressure?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightJumper 0 #2 May 22, 2004 The FireBolt has more flare when you pick up both sets of toggles (six attachment points). That is why a lot of DZ have gone to the FireBolt 298 and 350 and still get more lift (flare) at landing. I find the comment interesting though since usually I hear the opposite. In fact a lot of DZ have opted to use the single toggle vs. the two toggles as a result of the light toggle pressure. You might also want to check with the DZO (Robin) since I received good comments from him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #3 May 22, 2004 The Firebolt is a bigger canopy loaded lighter than the IcarusYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #4 May 24, 2004 BUMP I'd really like some info on this if ayone can helpYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #5 May 24, 2004 It's probably just a difference in design, that's all. Not all canopies are created equal. From my standpoint, the Icarus/Eclipse Tandem Mains are the nicest in the industry. Oh and they are avaliable in several break line configurations, all with both main and flare toggles.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #6 May 25, 2004 Sorry, but I have not jumped Icarus tandem mains. However, I thought that Firebolt 396 was significantly better than any other tandem canopy I have tried in the last 20 years. If the Icarus has significantly less toggle pressure than a Firebolt and the Firebolt 396 has the lightest toggle pressure of any tandem canopy I have jumped, then Icarus must be ridiculously light. Let's be certain that we are comparing "apples with apples" i.e. TI holding all the toggles on both canopies when measuring toggle pressure on similar-sized canopies with similar-sized students. Next thing you know they might even allow panty-waists to jump Icarus. Hah! Hah! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 May 25, 2004 I couldn't compare, as I've never jumped a Firebolt. I was just relaying my experience with the Icarus/Eclipse Tandem Mains. (The only Icarus designs product I'm really fond of) However I will add I am suspicious of the claims about the Firebolt. Several manufacturers have produced "single-planform-in-as-many-sizes-as-you want-for-as-many-types-of-skydivers-and-uses-as-you-want" canopies in the past and IMO they have not been. Talking to John Sherman at the last PIA I got just a little wierded out when he told be in three different breaths how the canopy was a) High performance swooping monster, b) great tandem main, and c) perfect for someone as their first canopy. I'll reserve any furthur judgement or approval till I fly one (or several in different sizes).---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #8 May 25, 2004 Quotea) High performance swooping monster, b) great tandem main, and c) perfect for someone as their first canopy. Are you talking about a Firebolt or a Cobalt? I've jumped the Firebolt and it won't win any swoop titles, it probally won't be jumped by any one thats really serious about swooping either since it had a fairly short recovery arc. It was very Stiletto -ish on the recovery arc and toggle pressure on the 2 sizes I jumped. Good flare, but I'd be courius to see how one with 1000 jumps flies with the F111 bottom skin. The double break lines on the Firebolt in sport sizes I feel should have gone out in the 90's. Never got the chance to jump the Firebolt on tandems but did some jumps on Flight Concepts copy of the Firebolt... not bad for tandems at all.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
