JohnnyUtah 0 #1 December 18, 2004 QuoteBut Miles (and the rest, as above) is also a horribly unethical and not terribly skilled BASE jumper. His antics at our legal span are way over the line, and his idea of BASE skill appears to be "how bad can I flail and live?" A "rad" jump is not the same thing as a skillful jump. If there hadn't been trees to break the fall at Bridge Day, I'm pretty sure that his daughter would never really have known her father--and that would be a true tragedy. Youre a funny guy Tom A. This thread was completely degenerated from the first post where Tree calls Miles a giant dick. And of course you joined in the flame festivities. Tom Aiello, I actually think you owe Miles a debt of gratitude. From the way I heard the story, one of your recent students had just returned to TF about six weeks ago from moabville with a whopping 10 jumps and thought he would try a rollover with a head wind from the IBP bridge. Well as it turned out, he climbed over but couldnt control his parachute and it ended up blowing under the bridge. The nose was catching air so he struggled to pull it in and thought it must be caught on something. So he cut it away and then climbed back over the rail. So now his chute has blown onto the steel under the bridge and is caught there. Miles was hiking up and witnessed the whole thing. So Miles goes and tracks down this student of yours at the visitors center and finds him on the phone with the sheriff. I guess he tried to call you but you didnt answer so he called the sheriff to ask permission to go on the steel to get the canopy. Well of course the sheriff said no and then proceeded to call IDOT (Idaho Department of Transportation)—the same guys who want to shut down this bridge to jumping. So Miles tells your student to call the sheriff back and tell him the canopy blew off. Your student does that and the sheriff starts asking him if the bridge was damaged and then chews out your student because IDOT had been called and they were about to bring out a big crane to park in the middle of the bridge so a crew of guys could risk there lives to retrieve the canopy at an expense that was way more than the canopy is worth. Then Miles went and got the canopy for your student. Regardless of other activities that you dont agree with, I personally am damn glad that Miles was there so that we didnt end up having a crane parked in the middle of the bridge, stopping traffic while some IDOT guys risked their lives to get a BASE jumpers canopy down. Thats the kind of thing that can shut this bridge down. Since he was your student and based on what you said to John H., then I guess that would have been your fault too. Quote ncjumpjunkie says: By what your saying is that its a chain reaction that falls on the teacher if someone falls into doing things their way instead of what they are tought. The most experienced guy is at fault. Tom Aiello replys: Yup. That's exactly what I'm saying. If one of my students goes out and blazes something, even years later, I do share some of the responsibility. The sooner after they leave my tutelage, the more of the burden is mine, I believe. -- Tom Aiello Have Fun, Don't Die! Johnny Utah My Website email:[email protected] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blitzkrieg 0 #2 December 19, 2004 wow, very interesting indeed. i come back and read this after a couple of weeks and i still haven't learned a thing... i thought i was bad, but i guess because i'd rather go jump off of something than sit online and fuel a bitch fest... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #3 December 19, 2004 That was sure nice of Miles to do that. Miles is a nice guy and of course he'd help out a person in need. He's always been that way. I know very little about the antics in question, except for some of the videos out nowadays, but the person I've known through the years is as described. A very positive life force with a big heart. I'm still not quite sure how it's Tom's responsibility, if the student decided on attempting a rollover with a headwind. It was simply lucky for all that Miles saw it, helped out and took care of the situation. BTW, This is the first I've heard of this incident so I'll have to take your word for it. I read Tom's statement on burden As admirable as it is, I don't necessarily agree to a full extent. There's nothing an instructor can do to keep another person from making his own choices. An instructor gives a student some tools to work with what they do with those tools is up to them. Johnny, you've taught dozens and dozens of people first jump courses. From what I've seen, you do quite a good job at it too. I'd put money on it that not all of them are the quiet, stealthy, never screw up kind. Do you carry that burden if they do? It may piss you off but I doubt it. With all that said, it makes me happier that no instructor has to share a burden should I screw myself up. In the skydiving world I'm an AFF instructor. I'm proud to say that many of my students turned out to be fantastic skydivers. A few of them were written off by other instructors who wanted to give the "bowling" speech. Those are the ones I'm most proud of. The ones that struggled and with some good positive influence, kept trying and succeded. Sadly, there are a couple people I've had under my previous tutalage that in later years broke themselves and did stupid stuff. They were set free to do as they will. As much as it hurts, it is not my true burden. Make sense? Go jump off something if that's the sort of thing you do. Have fun and stay safe. Y'all take this stuff too personally. (and I'm not talking about Miles) More jumping and less ... You get the idea. That is all. The weather is great, the wind is low, I'm out of here.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #4 December 19, 2004 The point of your story appears to be: "Rather than call the authorities and cooperate with them, we ought to break the law in daylight and hope we get away with it." I am not so sure that I agree. Quote...with a whopping 10 jumps... The jumper in question had around 100 jumps at the time. He's pretty much been jumping non-stop since his FJC. Quote...he tried to call you but you didnt answer... Sorry. It did take me more than 45 minutes to return his call. I try very hard to be on call for every emergency here, but I guess I'm just failing to help. I suppose I ought to make a point of sitting at the bridge all day, every day. I'm just not very helpful to other BASE jumpers, I guess. I _do_ feel some responsibility for my students. Was there something I said that made you feel otherwise?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #5 December 19, 2004 Johnny, I have put this into it's own thread, and re-titled it. I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows your opinion of me.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ncjumpjunkie 0 #6 December 19, 2004 NICE JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3 SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 December 19, 2004 QuoteNICE JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit Attitude. Why must you laugh at others? Do you kick puppies, or were you the guy that picked on the smaller kids in school? Grow up......oh wait, that was silly, this is an online BASE forum.....no room for that kind of sensibility. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #8 December 19, 2004 I do owe Miles much. I owe him (among other things) for being the first person to try to help me stay head down. I believe I made (repeatedly) the point that I like Miles, and think he's a great person. I do not agree with his BASE ethics. These are separate issues.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mt7wildcard 0 #9 December 19, 2004 You have made a very good point there. But: I believe, 100%, that the student, regardless of experience, acted on his own freewill and should accept 100% responsibility for his actions. Poor judgement ....maybe. No one hurt....great. Having said that: "I hereby dissolve my instructor (Miles D.) of any responsibility for any actions or endeavors undertaken by myself in the near or distant future. l accept full and total responsibility for my decisions. I also dissolve my rig supplier of responsibility and anyone who has given me advice in the past" Scott Watwood Canada 0 skydives -0$ >50 base jumps- >3000$ >400 paraglider flights ->10,000$ Making my own decisions, doing my own thing and having fun - PRICELESS! P.S. Had a long fall from 2300' from the paraglider today. Also Priceless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ncjumpjunkie 0 #10 December 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteNICE JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bullshit Attitude. Why must you laugh at others? Do you kick puppies, or were you the guy that picked on the smaller kids in school? Grow up......oh wait, that was silly, this is an online BASE forum.....no room for that kind of sensibility. Yeah I kick puppies!! Here doggy!SONIC BEEF #1 BASE 708, NC BASE 3 SLI,IADI,AFFI.TIE.FAA Rigger, Single & Multi Commercial Pilot,CFI, CFII, MEI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 4 #11 December 19, 2004 QuoteNICE JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!! No it's not. Tom is an amazing ambassador for your sport, something that you guys seem to be in short supply of unfortunately.Safe swoops Sangiro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
