Toggle out

[flyinryan 0]

Okay so I did a sweet little 300' B this morning except on opening I had a toggle pop out . No worries, just unstow the remaining toggle and riser land the bitch. So, did I waste time in unstowing the other toggle. I don't think it took that much time as it was instinctive, but I want to know what other people think. Just because it went well this time does not mean it was the best thing to do.

I feel it is more natural to make the canopy as semtrical as possible by releasing the toggle, but I can see how this may take precious time. All opinions welcome.

BASE 853

[DexterBase 0]

No time wasted, you HAD to unstow the other toggle so the canopy can fly. That close to the ground and a building, your primary task is to establish control of the canopy. Flying the canopy with one stowed toggle and one riser will greatly compromise your ability to control it.

Are you asking if it was right to TOSS the other toggle? This one's open to debate one BASE gear manufacturer recommends keeping the single toggle, and another says to toss it and fly on risers.

What was your immediate action plan prior to exit? Did you stick to it? Sometimes you can, sometimes you just have to go with it. Everyone has a plan 'til they get punched in the face. Good job staying alive.

[Faber 0]

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Are you asking if it was right to TOSS the other toggle? This one's open to debate one BASE gear manufacturer recommends keeping the single toggle, and another says to toss it and fly on risers.

i learned to toss the other,i did it once and will never do it again..
Have a look at a line over a guy whos on this forum werry often,he cutted the line and landed nice on his risers and the remain toogle.Then have a look at my video were i toss the other and ruining my live the next 7month..Ofcours it were my failur that i made that stall on rear risers,but im sure it will be more easy to control the canopi and land it.

I asked alot about this after the accident lets see if i can dig some of the answeres to you.

I think you did the rigth thing and that you didnt get hurt proves it..good job..now lets go jump again

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[andy2 0]

maybe a good thing to do would be make a few skydives with your BASE canopy and pull high, and full around with one toggle out, one toggle stowed, two tossed, one hand on risers, etc etc. I think you could really learn a lot, and the margin for error is so much less.

---------------------------------------------
let my inspiration flow,
in token rhyme suggesting rhythm...

[hookitt 0]

No time wasted IMO, unless you were extremely Low. Besides you had to steer it. With one set in deep brakes and one trailing, the amount you need to pull down the riser to fly straight, could very possibly stall the parachute.

Landing on just rear risers can be a challenge. If at all possible, go take your parachute on a skydive, and practice flaring with one toggle and one rear riser. You may find yourself pleasantly surprised at the results.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[flyinryan 0]

Thanks for the input everyone. You are right I did have to stear, as I was pointed at a Church with a big cross on it's roof. Although that would have made a pretty interesting news story: "BASE jumper inpailed by cross". Not relevant to the discusion, just kinda funny.

The reason this question came up is after I landed and told my buddy (who got his 4th object on that jump...congrats buddy, you know who you are) about the toggle out he asked if I unstowed the other toggle. I told him I did, and he agreed with my decision but said some people did it another way, so I was wondering what other people did.

So now, let me clarify. People are sugesting not tossing the remaing toggle, and stearing with the risers, AND the remaning togle in your hand?

BASE 853

[hookitt 0]

>So now, let me clarify. People are sugesting not tossing
>the remaing toggle, and stearing with the risers, AND
>the remaning toggle in your hand?

Practicing Steering and landing that way is the suggestion. Then you choose. Hows that for PC

Keep in mind my Jump numbers are only in the 130's. But that drill was suggested to me (as well as many others) when I first started out. I was happy with the results.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[feelopen 0]

I'm not going to give any advice because I'm a total newbie, but I will tell you my experience of landing with one toggle and one riser, vs just rear risers. I've been flying my dagger from planes to practice all the possible scenarios... this is what I've found from these two:

With both of my toggles released, rear riser flight/landing was symmetrically simple but pitch sensitive and sort of hard to find the sweet spot of the ~"flare"~... I landed uneventfully using just rear risers and did get a pretty nice stall. However, the thing I found most diffucult here was sinking it in steeply for accuracy. Granted I flew it on rear risers from 2000', but I found my arms getting really tired as I sunk it in the last 50' - making the "flare" a little tougher.

Flying with one toggle stowed and one rear riser took lots of energy too - but it was easier for me than both RR's and as long as I paid attn. to my heading at all times, the flare wasn't too bad either, it seemed I got more of a glide effect.

I liked flying/landing with one toggle and one RR best - if you can, pick your stronger arm for the riser if you'll be doing it for more than 1000' (ha!) - This config seemed the best bet because I got a much nicer scooping flare, I felt like the canopy retained more of its accuracy characteristics and the range of the sweet spot on the flare was more forgiving. It was a little asymmetrically strange at first, but if I just focused on my heading and how my landing "pictures" should look, my arms just figured it out on their own.

I know some manufacturers reccommend tossing the second toggle, but I think I'll be keeping mine. It all depends on what you feel most comfortable doing - do it and do it fast so you can avoid the metal implants. It doesn't seem like it takes too long to unstow a toggle if that's what you want to do. And I'm sure I wouldn't get tired from 300' with the help of sum adrenal gland secretions.

I practice at the DZ so that I'm comfortable with doing it later in BASE - also it helped my confidence to do it over the peas where I'm used to landing instead of some crazy talus slope or rocky shoreline.

I'm not sure there is a "best thing to do" - it changes for every jump and jumper... like you said - just land the bitch.

What type of toggles do you have, pin, tab, snap? Just curious.

CP

[huckfinn 0]

Keep the remaining toggle in your hand, but flare with both risers. This will prevent the tail of the canopy from flapping uselessly and possibly inverting when you flare. It actually gives you lots more power in your flare. Flaring with one toggle and one riser is a nice way to break your face in a pile of rocks as the canopy turns you into the ground. Bottom line, have a plan and stick to it. The canopy ride is not the time to figure things out.

[Dd0g 0]

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Flaring with one toggle and one riser is a nice way to break your face in a pile of rocks as the canopy turns you into the ground. Bottom line, have a plan and stick to it. The canopy ride is not the time to figure things out.

This is incorrect.

Most all BASE folks who have had multiple experiences landing after a blown/lost toggle agree that one can get better (more controllable, softer, more consistent) landings flaring with one rear riser and one toggle.

Throwing the second toggle away is a natural reaction, sort of. However, a little practice with one toggle and one riser will quickly get much better results both flying/steering the canopy and flaring on landing.

I used to make a habit of blowing out brake settings doing deep (4+ second) slider-down deployments, so I ended up landing alot with missing brakes. I can do either way, but given the chance will always going with riser and toggle, no question.

A day at the DZ with a BASE canopy will help to simulate this, though this will be slider-up and the mechanics slider-down are somewhat different. The best way to do this would be to find a nice, tall object, jump it slider-down, throw away one brake, and fly in and land with brake and toggle. Repeat on the other side. Voila! Ready for action.

For what it's worth, if one is landing with both rear risers the very common mistake made with BASE canopies is to flare TOO early and TOO hard. Rear risers are more subtle than toggles, and collapse much more of the canopy, much faster. Wait a second longer than you think, and don't crank too hard on the risers - better to come in with NO flare at all than to backstall and land with a collapsed canopy, going backwards (I broke an ankle doing this once, and learned the hard way).

Peace,

D-d0g

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

[motherhucker 0]

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Flaring with one toggle and one riser is a nice way to break your face in a pile of rocks as the canopy turns you into the ground. Bottom line, have a plan and stick to it. The canopy ride is not the time to figure things out.

This is incorrect.

Most all BASE folks who have had multiple experiences landing after a blown/lost toggle agree that one can get better (more controllable, softer, more consistent) landings flaring with one rear riser and one toggle.

Throwing the second toggle away is a natural reaction, sort of. However, a little practice with one toggle and one riser will quickly get much better results both flying/steering the canopy and flaring on landing.

I used to make a habit of blowing out brake settings doing deep (4+ second) slider-down deployments, so I ended up landing alot with missing brakes. I can do either way, but given the chance will always going with riser and toggle, no question.

A day at the DZ with a BASE canopy will help to simulate this, though this will be slider-up and the mechanics slider-down are somewhat different. The best way to do this would be to find a nice, tall object, jump it slider-down, throw away one brake, and fly in and land with brake and toggle. Repeat on the other side. Voila! Ready for action.

For what it's worth, if one is landing with both rear risers the very common mistake made with BASE canopies is to flare TOO early and TOO hard. Rear risers are more subtle than toggles, and collapse much more of the canopy, much faster. Wait a second longer than you think, and don't crank too hard on the risers - better to come in with NO flare at all than to backstall and land with a collapsed canopy, going backwards (I broke an ankle doing this once, and learned the hard way).

yes.
Although you don't really have to throw the other toggle to simulate.
It's a wierd flare to be sure. the toggle hand digs at least twice as deep as the riser hand, and you have to do it without initiating a turn. Practice it, you'll get used to it soon enough.

[Faber 0]

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Throwing the second toggle away is a natural reaction, sort of

Thanks i feel much better allready

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the very common mistake made with BASE canopies is to flare TOO early and TOO hard

exactly,and belive me that gives trouble

D-dog,dont know if you got my mail,but i cancled the laser,while i can jump from now off i would rather use the mony on eventures this summer and buy it later this year,still wellcome here ofcours

Stay safe
Stefan Faber