airtwardo 6 #1 January 17, 2003 What is the biggest... ie. softest landing canopy I can use practically. I'm 6'4" 230lbs. I banged myself up a couple years ago, triple digits on a crotch-rocket...now carrying 2 rods and 6 screws in my lower back, no problems w/ skydiving and tandems...haven't done a static object plunge since surgery and definitely need to go bigger than I used in the past. and ideas? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
motherhucker 0 #2 January 17, 2003 QuoteWhat is the biggest... ie. softest landing canopy I can use practically. I'm 6'4" 230lbs. I know a certain Gargantuan Kiwi BASE jumper who seemed to be having good luck recently w/ a 321sf FLIK from BR after his other canopy, um...tore a bit. He is 6'6", and usually jumps with a fully loaded handbag under his skirt so as long as your weight is proportionate to your height, you should not have much of a problem with something this size. When I saw him landing it a couple weeks ago, he seemed to be having extremely nice soft landings. Keep in mind though, that a canopy doesn't land you...YOU land the canopy. It is only a big piece of nylon until you tell it what to do when. You are in control of how soft your landing is. In other words...practice in a stress-free environment until you're confident that you won't fold under the pressure of a real BASE jump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #3 January 17, 2003 Second that.The biggest currently available canopy is the Flik 321.The other big boy canopies are the Ace/BJ 310, Mojo 310, Troll 290 and Dagger 313.If you are really concerned with soft landings (recovering from an injury, bad ankles, etc) I'd try demoing all of them out of a plane, and seeing which lands you the softest.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #4 January 17, 2003 Roger that... I need a rock to fill out my letters...which is really what I'm after. Done a couple dozen bldgs. in So.Cal. and NEVER had a landing I would care to repeat carrying spinal steel...no doubt lack of any kind of breeze was a contributing factor. Had no probs. on the B's & A's and that was on a para-foil! Thanks for the input. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #5 January 17, 2003 Thanks Tom- Hey, we met a while back...I was up in your area doing an airshow demo...we contracted an aircraft & pilot. Do you know what ever happened to Nick Di...? I lost track of him when I moved from Ca. to Tx. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dd0g 0 #6 January 17, 2003 I spoke with the aforementioned Kiwi about that Flik and he had nothing but good things to say about it. In fact, he liked it so much that he was too stingy to let yours truly demo jump it - which is pretty high praise! I'm about 225 (ok 215 after two weeks in the tropics and no lifting), and I started out on a 245. Moved to 265, then to 280 Mojos, now at a 285 Fox. Bigger IS better with BASE gear (as with so many other things in life). Remember, however, that the bigger canopies have, ceteris paribus, longer line sets and are wider to fly. The latter is important when sneaking into really tight landing areas - catching end cells in trees is no fun. The former - theoretically - increases the probability of tension knots. More lines, more knots. . . I'm pretty happy at 285. True, downwinders can be a bit rough - but more nylon (in my experience) doesn't help all that much with the downwinders. I've also heard people talk about this thing called "canopy control," and from what I hear it can help with landings. Don't know much about that personally Also, bigger canopies do weigh more. For low freefall (sub 180-190), that can have a material imact on canopy extraction speed and consistency (according to several fellows who have played that game quite a bit). If you play the super low odds, I'd suggest you get a smaller, ZP-topskin canopy for those types of jumps. I'd rather have a pressurized 245 over my head than a waffly, jellyfish 321 when I hit the ground. Oh, and I jumped this really nice 245 Troll off Petronas. Unfortunately, the fellow who was nice enough to pack it for me was sloppy (just kidding) and the resulting line dump was caught on camera by Gil: http://www.foolpix.com/folio.php?lang=fr&node=4241 Yes, ladies and gentlemen, that is the WORST photo of line dump known to BASEkind. How it didn't turn into a tension knot that would have spiralled me into the dirt - slider still stuck above it - is anybody's guess. Anyway, that little 245 Troll sure is nice to fly Peace, D-d0g [email protected] www.wrinko.com +~+~+~+~ But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #7 January 17, 2003 Ehhgad! nice picture... Thanks for the input, and I agree that in most cases bigger IS better...which is why I coined 'practical' in my question. I understand the trade-off ramifications of a big marshmallow opposed to smaller, open higher/faster and time to fly canopy. Bottom line- NO MORE DOCTORS! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #8 January 18, 2003 bigger is better in base...to a point. grossly underloaded canopies can effect control and efficiency. but at 230# you have little change that situation. the softest landing will be given not by the biggest canopy (unless it is simply line laundry?) but by the most efficient canopy. additionally some canopy companies measure differently i.e. only in base do some companies include the stabilizer areas. atair trolls are labled as small compared to how some other would manufacturers would lable them. i.e. i am 200 pounds exit and the 245 is the perfect size better for me than the 290. anyway best advice is to demo, fly and land the canopies to make a decision. sincerely, dan<><> www.extremefly.comDaniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #9 January 18, 2003 Quote...ceteris paribus... Doug, I'm willing to bet a half-cooked hamburger that there are no more than 5 jumpers in the world that know this means "all other things being equal". I'll bet the pickle and onion they all went to the same college we did. First Class Citizen Twice Over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #10 January 18, 2003 Quote Doug, I'm willing to bet a half-cooked hamburger that there are no more than 5 jumpers in the world that know this means "all other things being equal". I'll bet the pickle and onion they all went to the same college we did. You owe me the pickle and the onion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #11 January 18, 2003 ...and I like mine plain, so I'll just take the other 1/2 that you were going to bet. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dd0g 0 #12 January 18, 2003 QuoteQuote...ceteris paribus... Doug, I'm willing to bet a half-cooked hamburger that there are no more than 5 jumpers in the world that know this means "all other things being equal". I'll bet the pickle and onion they all went to the same college we did. Q.E.D. Reed is fun. Peace, D-d0g [email protected] www.wrinko.com+~+~+~+~ But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #13 January 19, 2003 I've found that my Troll 290 generally land me softer than any other canopy I've jumped, even the "larger" 310+ size canopies. If soft landings are a big factor for you, be sure to demo the Troll.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveO 0 #14 January 19, 2003 How about the Flik? Anybody land one yet?"When it comes to BASE, I'll never give advice, only my opinion" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dd0g 0 #15 January 19, 2003 QuoteHow about the Flik? Anybody land one yet? I've not flown one myself, but I know a couple of fellows pretty well who, between them, have more Flik jumps than any other humans. From their comments, I get the feel that the Flik flares much as an unvented Fox does. Makes sense, as the airfoil is very similar and the valves should help to minimize vent impact on flare. Oh, and the Flik comes standard with the 5th control line - a mod I've always wanted to make on my Fox but never got around to. That also should help flare stroke for most jumpers. I'm leaning towards a 290 Troll as my next canopy. Those things are tech! Peace, D-d0g [email protected] http://www.wrinko.com+~+~+~+~ But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveO 0 #16 January 19, 2003 How does the Troll (Vented) preform slider off? It's going to be hard to beat the onheading preformance I get with my Fox 285 V-tec's. I sent them off to have the valve covers installed hoping that will give me a stronger flare. C-Ya"When it comes to BASE, I'll never give advice, only my opinion" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #17 January 20, 2003 trolls both vented and unvented have taken several medals gold, silver and bronze in the world base championships combined in the last two years in a row, with only 2 canopies competing. it is a trully an exceptional canopy. robert petnic probably has the most #'s under a troll at this point. i will ask him if i can post his email for questions. robert and kathy at morpheus are also excellent for support and questions. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #18 January 20, 2003 I've got around 100 Troll jumps, but very limited experience with the MDV system.Based on that, it looks to me like a 290 Troll MDV is going to perform better than your 285 FOX Vtec in virtually all areas. I'd say it opens roughly on par (on-heading performance looks very similar), flies far better, and flares much stronger, for a softer landing. I don't know about the valved FOX, but the MDV looks (to me) like a better valve system than either the BR valves or the CR PAC valves.Um, in case you weren't aware of this, Dan and I rarely agree on anything, so if you're seeing me endorse his product, you can bet it's pretty darn good.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #19 January 21, 2003 Hi Dan,Quotei.e. only in base do some companies include the stabilizer areas.Can you tell us which companies include the stabilizer area in the canopy measurement?I've talked to CR, and they say they use the standard PIA (i.e. no stabilizer) size measurements. I believe BR uses the same standard.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #20 January 21, 2003 tom, LOL , glad you are happy with the troll. about the stabilizer measurement, i will verify and get back to you. sincerely, dan<><>Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andrewstewart 0 #21 January 21, 2003 Tom, I thought I remember reading something from you in which you talked about how your opinion of the Troll was not favourable... Perhaps it was on BLiNC? Am I getting confused or have you changed your mind? - Andrew Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SickMonkey 0 #22 January 21, 2003 If I'm not mistaken he is refering to the vented Troll versus the non vented troll he was getting smacked with. Right??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #23 January 21, 2003 Quote...he is refering to the vented Troll versus the non vented troll...Correct. I have had problems with the openings of my unvented Troll. I am very impressed with the valve design (MDV) used on the valved Troll.I have always been happy with the way the canopy flies. It has an excellent control range (flies both very fast and very slow), sinks better than any other unvented canopy I've used, and lands soft, with a powerful flare, even from part brakes.I've also noticed that the Troll has small pack volume for it's area. These combination of traits (flies well, small pack volume) make it an ideal wingsuit canopy (especially because my real complaint--openings--is largely irrelevant in the wingsuit environment), in my opinion.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #24 January 21, 2003 Tom- Where can I read up more on the canopies you guys are discussing? -Jim ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #25 January 21, 2003 I'd start with the manufacturers web sites:Flik and FOXAce, Blackjack and MojoTroll BASE Dealer and Troll ManufacturerDaggerSince most of those just have blatant self-promotion or relatively technical specifications, you might also have a look at the BLiNC Parachute Reviews.The BLiNC Knowledge BASE also has some gear articles, but the majority of the Walt Appel articles (which had some specifics on older canopies) appear to have gone missing.You can also find some discussion of canopies on this forum, on the BLiNC Forums (particularly in the technical archives) and on the ABA site.It's a lot to sift through. I hope this helps.Edited: Fixed links.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
