Jump numbers.

[Jimbo 0]

I'm curious, how many BASE jumps is considered a lot of BASE jumps? At what point do you feel that most BASE jumpers are experienced enough to leave their mentor and jump and their own? I'm guessing that peoples answers will vary by country as it's difficult to make legal jumps in the US.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Faber 0]

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how many BASE jumps is considered a lot of BASE jumps?

How many skydives is alot of jumps?Difficult,but I consider a jumper whit 100plus jump as a experienced jumper.

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At what point do you feel that most BASE jumpers are experienced enough to leave their mentor and jump and their own?

I dont think BASEjumpers ever will be experienced ENOUGH,we have to learn all the time to keep it safe as posible.I aint the rigth to tell when a jumper could go by his own(i belive it depends on the person).About the mentor thing,i do belive that the mentorstatus somehow will go and be a ideal at some point.

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[bps 0]

Hi Jim --

Very good question, but difficult to answer as it can vary from jumper to jumper.

I've met jumpers with 15 jumps that I trust exclusively. Sure, they still have a lot to learn, but they are very smart in their decision-making process.

I've also met jumpers with 100 jumps that scare the crap out of me due to their lack of knowledge/unwillingness to learn.

Many times, a good marker of experience can be the number of different objects that a jumper has. Different objects can expose a jumper to many different variables, greatly increasing their experience.

And expanding on your question even more...as the sport grows, so does the experience level. Think about 30 years ago when 100 skydives meant serious experience. That may equate to 1000 jumps nowadays.

15 years ago, 100 BASE jumps was ALOT. And while it still is today, it is becoming increasingly more common to run into someone with 100 under their belt. So it's tough to say.

Hope this helps...

Bryan

[Jimbo 0]

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I consider a jumper whit 100plus jump as a experienced jumper.

And that's what I was wondering. You're right, it is difficult and it's going to vary from person to person and from country to country. I'm curious what active members of the BASE community consider to be a lot of jumps.

Why? I don't know, I was just thinking about it last night and thought I'd ask.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[SkyFlyer 0]

I do think there is something to be said for number jumps from different objects. Just because someone has 200+ jumps from that "legal span in the potato state" doesn't make them experienced.

[TomAiello 25]

If I had to peg a number at which you have "a lot" of jumps, I'd say 1000. That puts you in company with around a dozen jumpers, worldwide. If you bump the jump number down to 500, you're probably looking at 50 jumpers.

I really think that two other numbers are more important, though. Those are number of objects jumped and number of objects opened.

If I had to put numbers on it, I'd say that (very roughly) I get 10 times the value from a new object as an old one, and 10 times that value for opening a new one. So, something like 100 jumps=10 new to me objects=1 new to everyone object.

So, on this scale, someone with 100 jumps, but who has opened 30 objects is far more experienced than someone with 700 jumps from that bridge in the potato state.

Truthfully, I've yet to see someone who is exclusively a potato state jumper rack up more than 100 or so jumps. It just starts to get boring, and they either lose interest or start hopping off other stuff and gaining more, different, experience.

In general, 500 jumps usually equates to around 100 objects (I know 3 people who hit 100 objects in the last year, and they all did it around 500 or 600 jumps). I know that for me, personally, this was the point at which I started to feel like I had some idea of what I didn't know.

So, quick answer, in my (quite debatable--and varied by jumper) opinion: 1000 jumps (200 objects) is an expert. 500 jumps (100 objects) is advanced. 200 jumps (40 objects) is experienced.

Jumpers vary widely. So will your mileage.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[base587 0]

I think that BASE covers such a wide range of objects, altitudes and disciplines that numbers alone (#objects or total #jumps) do not reflect general expertise.

My numbers on Tom's scale would put me somewhere between experienced and advanced.

However, I am a COMPLETE newbie virgin when it comes to long delay, slider up jumps.

Quite frankly, big cliffs SCARE me. Which may seem a bit odd since most skydivers consider a big cliff to be the SAFEST kind of BASE jump.

Anyway, hopefully that will all change this year. I hear that there's some kind of simulator/contraption that JJ and company have set up in Norway.

I'll be first in line

[Dd0g 0]

Folks with more than 500 jumps have done some serious jumping and probably aren't a flash in the pan. Folks with more than 1000 are the elders of our sport - in terms of experience, if not age/years in sport.

I was taught that the first 50 jumps a jumper does are really "on their mentor." That is, if they go in during this time, it is the mentor who bears much of the conceptual burden. Between 50 and 100, a jumper is stepping out on their own. After 100, they are jumping with their own judgment as their primary compass - even if they will always rely on advice from other jumpers, throughout their career.

This is a really wide generalization, I know. A few folks with 100 or so jumps are so uncurrent or out of the sport that I'd hesitate to even call them BASE jumpers. Some folks with 60 or so jumps have opened new objects, etc., and really are quite competent in at least some areas of the sport.

As others have said, number of objects jumped is a good second metric. Having lots of jumps is one thing, but having jumped a bunch of objects is probably a better metric of overall breadth of BASE skill and experience. I know several folks with 100+ objects; that's a pretty respectable figure.

Finally, number of new objects opened is useful to think about. A jumper with 200 jumps, 20 objects, and no new objects opened is in a very different position than one with 150 jumps, 50 objects, and 25 of those newly-opened.

Peace,

D-d0g
[email protected]
www.wrinko.com

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

[mickknutson 0]

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If I had to peg a number at which you have "a lot" of jumps, I'd say 1000. That puts you in company with around a dozen jumpers, worldwide. If you bump the jump number down to 500, you're probably looking at 50 jumpers.

I really think that two other numbers are more important, though. Those are number of objects jumped and number of objects opened.

If I had to put numbers on it, I'd say that (very roughly) I get 10 times the value from a new object as an old one, and 10 times that value for opening a new one. So, something like 100 jumps=10 new to me objects=1 new to everyone object.

So, on this scale, someone with 100 jumps, but who has opened 30 objects is far more experienced than someone with 700 jumps from that bridge in the potato state.

Truthfully, I've yet to see someone who is exclusively a potato state jumper rack up more than 100 or so jumps. It just starts to get boring, and they either lose interest or start hopping off other stuff and gaining more, different, experience.

In general, 500 jumps usually equates to around 100 objects (I know 3 people who hit 100 objects in the last year, and they all did it around 500 or 600 jumps). I know that for me, personally, this was the point at which I started to feel like I had some idea of what I didn't know.

So, quick answer, in my (quite debatable--and varied by jumper) opinion: 1000 jumps (200 objects) is an expert. 500 jumps (100 objects) is advanced. 200 jumps (40 objects) is experienced.

Jumpers vary widely. So will your mileage.

Tom, I totally agree with you except for the "Opening of Objects". What I don't agree with is any impression that new(er) jumpers think that to progress in the sport they have to "Open" new objects. I think it is far more important to just jump different objects for progression. I think there are many pitfalls to opening an object that a new(er) jumper may/would have no idea about.

So for a new(er) jumper focusing on 300' bridges, 1,000' towers, 400' cliffs, 3,000' cliffs, desert, forest, urban etc. This is where the potential progress lies.

There are many jumpers going to Norway each year that have never delayed over seconds. This is just an example.

But I do feel this is important.
UNFORTUNATLY I THINK THERE IS EVEN A LARGER GAP THAT OBJECTS AND JUMP NUMBERS
I have pissed many people off in my day and will continue to do so because no matter how many jumps they get, or objects they open, or whatever, these people do not learn what I would call the 1st basic rule WEAR AS MUCH BODY ARMOR AS POSSIBLE.
You talk about these people who have 500 jumps....how many of them do not wear good helmets, knee pads and possibly back braces? Except for at the Perine, I don't know any myself. After 500 jumps myself, I have seen massive death, serious injuries and the like. Jump numbers never seem to matter when a cliff strike is inevitable. The only thing that matters is keping calm, and being dressed for the "Crash".

OF EVERYTHING I SAY ON THE INTERNET OR IN PERSON, I WOULD NOT CARE IF EVERYTHING ELSE WAS IGNORED EXCEPT FOR THESE WORDS:
If you do not have protective gear, do not jump EVER!"

I have seen many people that do not skydive without good shoes and a full face helmet, but wear nothing basejumping. there is something sersiously wrong with that no matter how many jumps you have.

sorry for the rambling, I have just had a very bad day.

Mick Knutson
* BLiNC Magazine "Everything you ever wanted to know about Parachuting, but didn't know whom to ask."

[mickknutson 0]

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I'm curious, how many BASE jumps is considered a lot of BASE jumps? At what point do you feel that most BASE jumpers are experienced enough to leave their mentor and jump and their own? I'm guessing that peoples answers will vary by country as it's difficult to make legal jumps in the US.

-
Jim

I came across an interesting article on BLiNC just now:
http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=7&topic_id=3937

Mick Knutson
* BLiNC Magazine "Everything you ever wanted to know about Parachuting, but didn't know whom to ask."

[andrewstewart 0]

Mick,

In the situation where you are jumping over water - and the possibility exists where you could land in the water under canopy - could it not in fact be more dangerous to wear body armor that could inhibit your ability to swim?

I'm thinking of BASE fatality #4, #12, and #53 (http://juliabell.home.att.net/), although I don't know in any of these cases if they were wearing something that was a contributing factor.

Respectfully,

Andrew Stewart
Atlanta GA

[TomAiello 25]

None of those cases involved jumpers wearing restrictive protective gear.

I'm a big believer in protective gear. I wear it on practically every jump (and after two weeks in the tropics, it gets pretty miserable). That said, I have made jumps without protective gear when there was no chance of object strike (i.e. bridge jump) and I was planning on a water landing. When I intend to land on land (even if water is a possibility), or where object strike is possible (even if the landing is in water), I generally wear the armor.

In my opinion (and I believe, in his) one of the world's best, and most experienced, jumpers would no longer be with us had he not been wearing body armor at his last accident.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Dd0g 0]

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In my opinion (and I believe, in his) one of the world's best, and most experienced, jumpers would no longer be with us had he not been wearing body armor at his last accident.

Tom speaks true in this. It is simply reckless to jump without protective gear - over time, one will suffer more injuries and worse injuries without armour than if one wears it consistently.

The gods of fate seem to have a bad sense of humor with this - I know of several folks who ALWAYS wear gear but, one time, didn't and were injured that one time. If you do decide to wear gear, don't do it sporadically. I feel that it is best to either wear it all the time (and be used to it, mentally and physically) or not wear it and understand the price you WILL pay for not wearing it, someday.

Peace,

D-d0g
[email protected]
www.wrinko.com

+~+~+~+~
But this, surely, was the glory that no spirits, canine or human, had ever clearly seen, the light that never was on land or sea, and yet is glimpsed by the quickened mind everywhere.

[Zennie 0]

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The gods of fate seem to have a bad sense of humor with this - I know of several folks who ALWAYS wear gear but, one time, didn't and were injured that one time.

Unfortunately, we had a fatality (Robert Hindon) for this very reason just this weekend.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[bps 0]

Just want to say "ditto" to what Mick, Tom, and D-dog has said.

I've always worn armor since my very first jump, and as each day goes on, I find myself with more and more armor. I hate to say it, but it comes from experience. Like Mick -- I've seen serious carnage and death. Stay in the sport long enough and I assure you, you will see it to.

Good armor can go a long way in reducing the damage that will happen sooner or later.

C-ya,

Bryan

[tombuch 0]

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could it not in fact be more dangerous to wear body armor that could inhibit your ability to swim?

I'm thinking of BASE fatality #4, #12, and #53 (http://juliabell.home.att.net/), although I don't know in any of these cases if they were wearing something that was a contributing factor.

It wouldn't have made a bit of difference in #12. I had jumped a cliff over water with him several weeks prior to his drowning at NRGB. He couldn't swim a single stroke or even float on his own. A landing in water was pretty much a guaranteed fatal jump with or without body armor.

I don't know about the other accidents listed, but I'm a strong believer in wearing maximum protection whenever possible.

-base 128

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[mickknutson 0]

http://www.blincmagazine.com/forum/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=7&topic_id=6863&mesg_id=6863&page=70

Mick Knutson
* BLiNC Magazine "Everything you ever wanted to know about Parachuting, but didn't know whom to ask."

[TomAiello 25]

I just wanted to add this.

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In the situation where you are jumping over water - and the possibility exists where you could land in the water under canopy - could it not in fact be more dangerous to wear body armor that could inhibit your ability to swim?

Yesterday I landed in a river wearing a full suit of body armor, additional kneepads, and a full face helmet. No problems getting out of the river at all. Even the full face helmet (which I had worried about before the jump) didn't create any difficulties.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com