Robert99

Georger, you are the one with the obsession.

Georger, goggle "FAA Air Traffic Control History" and work your way to the appropriate section that defines and explains how "shrimp boats" were actually used in early air traffic control. I'm sure you will learn something. But "shrimp boats" were not used in 1971.

Georger, both of the links that you have provided have big time problems. The one above describes "shrimp boats" in the same manner as the RAF model. You have described "shrimp boats" as being paper cards on something like a name plate fixture as in the last paragraph above. These cards are actually shown in one of the links you provided. In neither case is the location of the aircraft written on those cards. Basically, the term "mark your shrimp boats" doesn't mean anything especially in the 1971 time frame. If the hijacked airliner was tracking V-23, it could have provided its exact location to the Seattle Center in 10 seconds (I timed it).

The brass holder with a paper page inserted in it was not a "shrimp boat". A shrimp boat was something that you may have seen in pictures of the RAF Fighter Command. The RAF shrimp boats were on a large scale map of Southern England and were moved regularly as the locations of the RAF fighters and German aircraft engaged. The set-up just described was used to maximize the efficiency of the RAF aircraft and it worked. The RAF fighters won the Battle of Britian thanks to such command actions and the introduction of radar.

Georger, contrary to your claim the Columbia River does NOT flow "east to west by Tena Bar". The Columbia River flows south to north at Tena Bar and for several miles both south and north of Tena Bar. To be more precise, specifically at Tena Bar the Columbia River actually flows at approximately 002 degrees with respect to True North. If the airliner was on a straight line between the Malay and Canby Intersections, it would have passed about 1000 feet to the west of Tena Bar and would have flown straight down the Columbia River for several miles.

It is surprising that the crew didn't record their location when they thought Cooper had jumped since they had been told to flash their navigation lights when he did. The airliner did have two knotted ropes (not ladders) in the cockpit for the crew to exit thru the cockpit windows when they couldn't exit thru the cabin. These ropes were permanently installed and are included in present day large aircraft.

Basically, the airliner's onboard navigational instruments will provide a more accurate determination of its position than the Air Force's radar. The USAF radar was located at McChord AFB and was probably the same radar that the Seattle Center's Air Traffic Control personnel were using. The airliner had two VOR receivers, two DME receivers, and two ADF receivers plus some additional avionics such as a Marker Beacon Receiver. When Rataczak told the Seattle air traffic controller to "mark his shrimp boats", which is a term that I have never heard before in civilian air traffic control, he implied that he didn't know his own location and that he was off the airways. Otherwise, he could have simply said "we are XX miles from YYY VORTAC and on radial ZZZ" and the controller would have instantly known where he was and with greater precision than anything from radar blips.

The only thing secret about the Western Flight Path is that the actual Seattle air traffic control communications have been heavily redacted. As you have repeatedly been informed over the last 14 years, if you want to know how the Seattle air traffic control communications should look all you have to do is look at the Oakland Center's communications with the aircraft. The Oakland Center's and Reno Tower's communications are textbook examples of how things were done in 1971.

Actually, I do know of instances where a "differing interpretation" killed someone. And I have been an eye witness to one such instance.

Anyone who sticks with facts won't have a problem with me. I have been dealing with Mother Nature since I was a teenager and have found her to be a very unforgiving taskmaster. That is, you stick to facts or she will deliver your head to you on a silver platter. She does not like wild speculations or conjectures. Just the facts!

I am not a psychologist, but I have had training in management which included some human relations training. And I have had leadership training in the military. I have stuck to my strongest point in posts here, which is aviation. As I stated about 14 years ago, I will leave everything that involves looking through a microscope or telescope to other people.

Georger, you didn't list any aviation background information for yourself. And you do not acquire an aviation background through DNA. My brothers and I were still very young when WW2 ended. But uncles and older cousins served in the military. One cousin was killed in a tank battle in Germany in early 1945. A friend of the family was killed at Guadalcanal. Another friend of the family went down with his ship in the North Atlantic. Such things were common to the majority of American families in WW2. Since WW2 my brothers and I along with other relatives have served in the military. Most recently, a young nephew served in Afghanistan. One of my WW2 memories is that I saw one of the Japanese balloon bombs in flight over central Washington State where I lived. A couple of P-38s were flying around it and shot it down when it got over a sparsely settled area. As I have related previously, I have been a pilot since the age of 15 and have held several FAA pilot ratings. I have also held all FAA ground instructor ratings for general aviation that were available when I was active. Educationally, I have a BS in Aeronautical Engineering plus two additional college degrees. Further, I have taken any number of additional college courses in mathematics and engineering related subjects. I have 300+ graduate and undergraduate college semester hours. Professionally, I worked as an Aeronautical Engineer for DOD, from which I am retired, primarily in the development of technology for new aircraft concepts. However, along with about 10,000 other contractor, military, and DOD personnel, I did spend a couple of years on a certain aircraft program that was moving from the YF- demonstrator stage to the F- production stage. That aircraft is in the news this very day and I hope the Ukrainians get a lot of them. I have never claimed superiority to any of the people you list. Conversely, I am fully qualified to do my own analysis on most aviation matters and will seek the advice of specialists in fields that I am not familiar with.

Georger, why did you repost this? This is exactly what you were arguing against just a few posts ago.

My aviation background has been online since about 2009 as you well know. However, you have been very secretive about your own background and apparently don't have any aviation knowledge or experience. Just exactly what is your own background in aviation or anything else?

Georger, what have you actually contributed to the Cooper case? Just a lot of misinformation and nothing else.