willard

You people won't show a receipt why would stand there and listen to some lawyer explain the COMPANIES (not the governments) policies. j How about searching your bag? The one that contains YOUR property that YOU just paid for. The fact is that these policies are primarily to protect the store against crooked cashiers. YOU get your bag searched because THEY have hired dishonest workers. Really, John? I'd like to see where you got that information. Just think about it. Ernst & Young's Study of Retail Loss Prevention estimates that the retail industry loses a staggering $46 billion annually to inventory shrinkage. By far, the largest percentage of loss--a whopping 48 percent--comes from store employees. Some estimates put the amount at closer to 75 percent. And 55 percent of employee theft occurs among managers and supervisors. A National Supermarket Research Group survey reports that employee theft makes up 57 percent of all retail loss at grocery. Why is there so much employee theft? According to the Retail Issues Letter from Mays Business School at Texas A&M University, the reason is simple. "Employees have the necessary insider information to conduct endless retail frauds," states the letter. "Acting alone or in collusion, they are uniquely positioned to cause significant financial damage in a relatively short period." At the Wal-Mart my sister worked almost all employee theft was from the stockroom, not through the cashier lines. It is a falsehood to say it is fact the policies are because of crooked cashiers when the article you quote only mentions employees as a whole and not by job.

Maybe because the stuff the thief stole before coming to cashier is usually not hidden in the bag the cashier hang to him? I'm sure that in some instances the cashier is involved, but I would guess that more often people just walk around the cashier line and out the door, something not at all difficult to do. One way to avoid that situation is to have a security person at each checkout line who you hand all items to and they escort you through the line and directly out the door. Once out the door the only way back in is through a security check where all items you bring in are recorded and tagged. But somehow I don't think people would patronize a business that was run that way.

You people won't show a receipt why would stand there and listen to some lawyer explain the COMPANIES (not the governments) policies. j How about searching your bag? The one that contains YOUR property that YOU just paid for. The fact is that these policies are primarily to protect the store against crooked cashiers. YOU get your bag searched because THEY have hired dishonest workers. Really, John? I'd like to see where you got that information.

"Rush hour traffic would be so much easier if people would just get the hell out of my way!" In order to catch the bad guys sometimes the good guys have to suffer a tad bit of inconvenience such as showing your receipt on the way out the door.

You are correct, it was Ben who said that. Obviously at a time when he had his head up his ass. In the real world we all give up some freedoms and liberties in exchange for safety. (We each give up the freedom to burn old tires in order that we don't destroy our environment, for example.)

I am sick and fucking tired of hearing that. I have just as much a right as the next guy to shop there, and I have no obligation to sacrifice my rights by doing so. The store has the legal and ethical obligation to operate without violating my rights. If they don't like it, too bad. When there are a million people a day going in and out of the doors, they don't get to choose who to serve. The ONLY way that store, or any store, can violate your rights is if you let them. You let them by going there. They are a private business that has every right to set policy. Don't like their policy, don't go. I realize you don't like that, but what about it don't you understand? They can set all the policy they want, but they still cannot violate my rights. What part of that don't YOU understand? I will continue to shop where I want, and stand up for my rights whenever I happen to feel violated. That's how I roll. Accept it and move on, as this isn't really a 'change my mind on the issue' type thing. Yes, they can set all the policy they want. No, they cannot violate your rights. Unless you let them. Refer back to my previous post. You can continue to shop where you want, when you want, as long as you abide by the policies of the stores you shop in. Not willing to abide by the rules=don't go there. Simple. BTW, what right is violated by them insisting to see a receipt?

I am sick and fucking tired of hearing that. I have just as much a right as the next guy to shop there, and I have no obligation to sacrifice my rights by doing so. The store has the legal and ethical obligation to operate without violating my rights. If they don't like it, too bad. When there are a million people a day going in and out of the doors, they don't get to choose who to serve. The ONLY way that store, or any store, can violate your rights is if you let them. You let them by going there. They are a private business that has every right to set policy. Don't like their policy, don't go. I realize you don't like that, but what about it don't you understand?

A clerk from that dept. always escorts these items to the front of the store with you after you pay, so this is not an issue. Also, I think it's telling that you would just hand over YOUR sunglasses. WTF? You are not a thief, but you will let THEM steal your sungalsses?? FUCK THAT!!! What if they were $100 sunglasses? Would you just hand them over too since you have no recept? Wal-Mart doesn't sell $100 sunglasses and I would never pay that much for sunglasses. Also, if they DID take my $4.99 scratched-up sunglasses I would also allow them to keep what it was I was GOING to buy and never go back there again.

Didn't happen in Canada. Happened in the US. Ohio, in particular. Where they still have capitol punishment for speeding.

A search of your person is a constitutional issue, IMO. Once you pay, those items are your posessions, and any search is a violation of your rights. Here is an example of why this is a bad idea. Should I have to show a receipt for the sunglasses I wore into the store if it is a brand/model they sell? But Mr. Cleark, I bought these a week ago, I have no receipt! Well, I guess you stole them then? Sorry no. Unless you see me stealing, fuck off. I'm not a lawer but I am smart enough to know that they don't HAVE to see you stealing or catch it on camera to get a conviction. "This surge protector? The one in my bag, with your store label? The one I have no receipt for while walking from the register to the door? Yeah, it's mine. I brought it in with me." Sure you did. Hell, maybe you really did! But I doubt any cop or judge is going to buy your claim. Sunglasses? I've been asked about mine several times, each time at the store i bought them and by a different cashier. I just tell them I bought them several weeks ago and they are happy with that. It's amazing what a civil response to a question can do to keep a situation from escalating vs a smartass reply. Luckily, in America, it's up to a jury, not a cop or judge. Odds are, a jury will wonder why the cameras (there are about 100 or more in your average WalMart) did not see you steal a thing, nor have you ever stole anything or committed any crime in your entire life. And by the way, when they call the cops about your sunglasses, for which you have no receipt, your opinion on the issue will likely change. If they want to fret about my sunglasses, they can have 'em. After all, they are scratched and gouged and only cost $4.99. But I doubt that will happen. More likely to get hassled about the 52" TV I'm rolling out the door. BTW, it's very easy to avoid the cameras. Just because it didn't get caught on film didn't mean it didn't happen. Carrying a VCR out the door with no receipt is a sure bet to get you stopped in your tracks until you can prove you did pay for it. Luckily they can go back to the register and look it up. My vote is as follows... The store has every right to ask to see your receipt before exiting. You have the right to refuse to show it, but better be prepared to explain your possesion of the items in question. (Best done with a receipt) The store had no right to prevent him from leaving the parking lot and the actions of the guy who kept the door from being shut were, in my mind, criminal. The kid had the right to call the police, which he did. The cop had the right to ascertain the identification of the kid. The cop had the right to cite the kid when he refused to cooperate after calling the police.

Are you a lawer? Neither am I. That's why I said earlier that whether the kid broke any laws and whether he has a case against CC is for the legal folk to decide. You can show revised codes all day long, but it is how those are applied that counts. I don't know, and i'm sure you don't know, whether or not there are other sections of the code that apply in this case.

Why? What would you do, create a scene in the store? The stores have those "beeper things" in place to prevent shoplifting. Being manmade they are prone to failure and occasionally the "beeper thing" goes off when a legit customer exits the store. If you don't want that to happen to you then it is simple - don't shop there. Not shopping there is a right you can freely express. However, if you DO choose to shop there, then you assume certain risks of "beeeper things" going off on you. But if it does fear not. It is virtually painless and the sterility only lasts for 5-10 years.

A search of your person is a constitutional issue, IMO. Once you pay, those items are your posessions, and any search is a violation of your rights. Here is an example of why this is a bad idea. Should I have to show a receipt for the sunglasses I wore into the store if it is a brand/model they sell? But Mr. Cleark, I bought these a week ago, I have no receipt! Well, I guess you stole them then? Sorry no. Unless you see me stealing, fuck off. I'm not a lawer but I am smart enough to know that they don't HAVE to see you stealing or catch it on camera to get a conviction. "This surge protector? The one in my bag, with your store label? The one I have no receipt for while walking from the register to the door? Yeah, it's mine. I brought it in with me." Sure you did. Hell, maybe you really did! But I doubt any cop or judge is going to buy your claim. Sunglasses? I've been asked about mine several times, each time at the store i bought them and by a different cashier. I just tell them I bought them several weeks ago and they are happy with that. It's amazing what a civil response to a question can do to keep a situation from escalating vs a smartass reply.

Bullshit. I can stuff that receipt up my ass if I want. I paid, and unless they have proof that I stole something they can fuck off. Do they hae video evidence of me stealing? Fine - call the cops and press charges. Otherwise, leave the innocent alone. Attempting to leave the store with a bag full of merchandise and no receipt is all the evidence they need to have you arrested and for you to be convicted. You best hope their cameras got a real good shot of you paying for the stuff and their register has a record of the transaction. Now, on the other hand, if you reach back into your ass and pull out the receipt and show it to them, then that would be a different situation. They will most likely ask you to leave...quickly! A receipt or lack thereof does not prove theft. I always pay with a debit card, so I'll gladly go to court and show the jury my bank statement showing I paid. Then I will file a huge lawsuit for wrongful prosecution, etc, etc. The law is that I can't steal. The law does not state "Thou shall show receipt to minimum wage moron on demand or face immediate jail time." I'd also guess that unless the store had video of you stealing, the cops would let you go. Where's Kennedy - I'm sure he has an opinion on this. And I may actually value it this time. If you were attempting to leave the store w/bag of mechandise and no receipt, they would have a lot more on you than just no receipt. Other than that i agree with each and every point of your reply. You most certainly can refuse to show a receipt, go to court, sue them, etc. Or you can make everybody's life much simpler and just show them the freakin' receipt. It's actually pretty easy. See that little piece of paper they give you at the checkout? Put it in the bag or keep it in your hand. If they ask to see your receipt just wave that little piece of paper. I know, I know....it's a lot of work and extremely strenuous. But it does make everyone's day much less stressful. After all, the store's right to prevent theft is greater (on store property) than your right to not have to show them the receipt they just gave you. Once you are off their property, THEN you can tell them to go get fucked.

The store didn't call the police. The child did.

Bullshit. I can stuff that receipt up my ass if I want. I paid, and unless they have proof that I stole something they can fuck off. Do they hae video evidence of me stealing? Fine - call the cops and press charges. Otherwise, leave the innocent alone. Attempting to leave the store with a bag full of merchandise and no receipt is all the evidence they need to have you arrested and for you to be convicted. You best hope their cameras got a real good shot of you paying for the stuff and their register has a record of the transaction. Now, on the other hand, if you reach back into your ass and pull out the receipt and show it to them, then that would be a different situation. They will most likely ask you to leave...quickly!

Their agent (the cashier) has ALREADY seen it. In many of these stores the cashier can be quite a distance from the exit, leaving a lot of opportunity for bad people to take advantage of. The exit is the last chance for the store to catch these folk. They have every right to take reasonable measures to prevent this. Asking to see a receipt is very reasonable, especially when the person at the door has other duties that distract him/her and doesn't see each and every person go through a check out line. Nobody forced the kid to shop there. They made a very simple request (can I see your receipt?) and he made a mountain out of a molehill in refusing to show his receipt and then to show the cop an ID when asked to produce one. When asked for his drivers license he had a choice. a) Dig it out and show the cop, or, b) Say he doesn't have a drivers license with him and ask if another ID is acceptable, or, c) Be an ass and refuse to cooperate with the cop. He chose "c" and was cited for his conduct. The intelligent choice would have been "b" if he didn't want to show one. No laws about going shopping without an ID, but there are against intentionally making a cop's job even more difficult.

The store has every right to ask to see your receipt. Whether or not it has the right to do anything if you refuse is another matter to be sorted out by the legal eagles, not a bunch of people who jump out of airplanes. Unless, of course, they happen to be legal eagles. BTW, the thread title is misleading. If you read the article FULLY you will see he was cited for obstructing an officer in the performance of his duty. The only thing that has to do with a receipt is the chain of events. This case has nothing to do with rights and everything to do with a kid making an ass of himself.

It's their store thay can do what they want to. They don't need a law while you're still inside. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem showing their reciept if asked. Do you think they do this to be pricks? They have a right to protect themselves. . The bag and its contents were his personal property the instant he handed over the money. Should he have the right to inspect Circuit City's cash registers because they contain cash that was his a few moments before? As I asked, Is it so hard to show the receipt he acquired moments before??? If you put it in your wallet/purse then say so and ask if it is really necessary. And no, the store had no right to prevent him from leaving. When I pay for goods at a store there is no law that says I have to hand my money to the clerk. I could toss it on the counter or throw it on the floor at their feet and be perfectly within my rights. But it is my sense of respect for people doing their job and my being part of a society that still has a remnant of civility that tends me toward cooperating with others even if I am not legally obliged to do so. We should all be thankful for people who do things that aren't required of them. Can you imagine what the world would be like if nobody did anything that they weren't expressly required to do? Again, no, CC had no right to prevent him from driving away. No, he should not have been cited for failing to produce an ID. Yes, things got out of hand. But it all could have been avoided if the kid had just exerted a little energy and showed his flippin' receipt instead of being a smartass.

Sounds like a smart-assed little runt just looking to cause trouble. What is so hard about showing a receipt? Circuit City doesn't need a leg to stand on. The child is not charged with shoplifting or anything to do with the store. He is charged with obstructing an officer in the performance of his duty (by refusing to produce an ID). Having a person check for a receipt and compare it to the contents of their bag is the last chance for a store to prevent shoplifting. As I see it there is nothing wrong with that.

Hmmm...I don't know about that. Is there any data to support that claim? Seems you would be safer in any collision sitting in a heavier vehicle, all else being the same (air bags, restraints, etc.) All else is almost never the same. How about ability to maneuver to avoid said accident without rolling over, for example. The ability to avoid an accident without incurring a rollover is as much a function of the driver as it is the vehicle. I know people who can drive an SUV at it's limit through a slalom without trouble, but I know more who could roll an F1 car on a silky smooth frozen lake. On average, people's driving skills suck and they like to place the blame on the vehicle.

Exactly. So to say that an SUV is less safe than your average passenger car is merely conjecture without knowing the situation. Also, since driving situations vary greatly with location (stop and go driving during morning crawl vs secluded, winding, slippery mountain roads) one must also consider where the vehicle will be driven.

Hmmm...I don't know about that. Is there any data to support that claim? Seems you would be safer in any collision sitting in a heavier vehicle, all else being the same (air bags, restraints, etc.)

I'll give up my SUV (as soon as I get one) when they pry my cold dead hands from it's steering wheel.

Interesting quote. Who is it attributed to? Though the reasoning sounds solid, I have to disagree with this person. The West has not won the world. The West, as it were, controls a small portion of the civilized world. A VERY small portion when compared to Eastern culture. But I do agree that we are very proficient at the application of organized violence.