utahsteve1

Look at aspects regarding learning how to fly an airplane. There is a clear, defined progression. Look at beginner CFI's. you CAN'T(not shouldn't) go directly from freshly minted CFI in a 152, to multi engine instrument instructor in a week. The reasons and dangers should be obvious. What's the difference when a freshly minted coach can go from not being allowed to be with or touch an AFF student in the air, but can go and get a rating involving the most complex gear the sport has, the most complex environment an instructor will be subjected to; the whole situation needing a seasoned professional to get it right over and over and over... Seasoning and aspiration is what develops respect in any sport. Whoever got rid of AFF JM's was an idiot for one reason. It was the only way to take a freshly minted JM and put him/her in the air with a AFF I and begin really teaching them what's what in the real world. They had to develop respect. You want to be a captain of a commercial passenger aircraft? Aspire to it and EARN IT. You want to be a Tandem Master? Aspire to it and EARN IT. The system we have evolved in this sport(for whatever reason) has not developed this type of progression and I feel has undermined it. I'm really happy with the idea of the coach program. Beats the shit out of BIC, or nothing to AFF JM(which is where I came from in '87). The rest of what we have developed is garbage and like it or not, aware or not, we are reaping what we have sown; cows are coming home... Finally, here's your real problem, one I have been alluding to; If a DZO or Manager of whatever size DZ doesn't like what a TI/E or S&TA is doing regarding enforcement or discipline, all they have to do is uninvite(Get off my DZ) the enforcer/whistle blower with NO real ramifications. Try doing that to the FAA guy doing a ramp check. Right. We fear the FAA because of what they CAN do, not WHAT they do. Who is going to set the standards and enforce the standards when the standard bearer can be told to fuck off with impunity? Ya ever wonder why people get shit on? Simple; shit rolls downhill. Why? Gravity, of course. in order for shit to roll downhill under the force of gravity it must start at the top. Good shit rolls downhill and bad shit rolls downhill. There is a of bad shit at the top we are atoning for down here it seems... Good Luck waiting and hoping for an idiot system to reach a collective epiphany... Like I said, "'nuff said" HAPPY NEW YEAR Y'ALL!!!! Utah

It's all about getting and proving experience. It's all about having to learn and earn respect. It's all about raising the bar. It's all about REALLY understanding what you are asking yourself to do. The general public deserves no less; and generally, tandem is their first experience in the sport. TM's should aspire to be the best; and shut down if they are not...(how's that for Dudley Do right). Once again, unfortunately there are a lot of skydivers with TM ratings; precious few Tandem MASTERS... 'nuff said... Utah

Martini Time; it's all downhill from here... Utah

I have been... As you can tell, I do not want nor am I getting paid to be a politician... I've been watching this shit regarding tandem go downhill for a long time. Problem is people at the top act as if a TM doing a first jump passenger has anything to do with being an instructor. A first jump tandem is an introductory flight. A demo. A very lucrative demo. Tandem is a completely different animal than any other inductive/instructive situation. Whether SL, IAD, AFF, AFP, IAF, KMAss, MFU, or any other type of program, it's all the same; solo gear, self-responsibility. I have said this before; there should be no TI or TI/E rating. It confuses the situation. There should be Tandem Masters and Tandem Master/Examiners. To get to TM you must do Coach for a season and at least 50 jumps, then AFF for a season( could be same season) for at least 50 jumps, then qualify for TM etc. There should be only 1 USPA I/E rating covering everything (and you have to achieve everything to get it). There should be a coach rating, combined SL/IAD rating, AFFJM, AFFI. We have made this more complicated and convoluted than going to get your private pilots license. We have NO real authority to make anybody do anything. The FAA does. Try as they might the USPA has the same real authority as AAA. You don't have to join to drive... Tandem is too dangerous and too deadly to be dumbed down like it is. Just listen to the storys and watch the videos. Then look for the results. No crack down, no cracked heads. blah, blah ,blah... just a lot of yahoos going 'fuck you tryin' to get in the way of MY fun... (while we kill and maim unnecessarily, in my opinion and experience) Utah

This is some correspondence regarding what I have seen the last 22 years of doing tandems. This also went to the USPA (read bottom up) All a TM has to do is get a rating from UPT once. From then on UPT has nothing to do with them. Scenario: 5 years after getting the rating from UPT and USPA, whose guidelines is he going to follow? The path of least resistance and let's him/her getaway with the most. It's just natural... As an UPT I/E there's not jack shit I can do with a TM following USPA guidelines such as deciding to jump with a coach with 200 jumps total When UPT says 500 min... That's just one example of many. From: [email protected] Date: September 29, 2009 9:13:39 AM EDT To: "Mark Procos" Subject: RE: USPA/UPT Tandem minimums Thanks for getting back to me, Mark. This dumbing down and graying of the requirements for tandem masters is not healthy for the general public(our passengers). I could not find anywhere in the SIM or IRM any words that states that a USPA TI must follow the Manufacturers minimums. This just helps to degrade the respect that tandem requires. It seems strange to me that it took 25 years to drop 2 passengers, 15 years to get into ADD firings into deploying mains, etc. The last couple of years, I've been amazed at the number of young divers with the perception that the skill set required to be a TM is less than that of an AFF I. They(through ignorance) profess to me that they want the TM rating first while they generate the skills and confidence to take on the AFF rating! In all my years, I've had not heard anything like this until recently. Most of us understand the progression of the Manufacturers desire to distance themselves from the day-to-day regulation of TM's. However, old guard folks like me have warned of the degradation potential in this. Now it is in writing. I would like to suggest a public written statement by the manufacturers stating the absolute requirement to follow manufacturers standards. We need this to solidify the field. As you said "go figure". Well, I am and I do not like what I'm seeing... Steve Webb 914-588-0190 [email protected] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: USPA/UPT Tandem minimums From: Mark Procos Date: Mon, September 28, 2009 11:58 am To: Webb Steven R. Howdy Steve Yes, USPA is misguided in certain areas including this one. They also tell us the minimum age is 16. Go figure. That said uspa only places a minimum standard and the TI has to follow the guidelines laid out by the manufacturer. That is why a person has to go through a manufacturers course first. Mark On 9/25/09 8:53 PM, "Webb Steven R." wrote: Hi Marks... Mark K, the page in the IRM concerning minimums is 171. Mark P., I emailed Mark K. earlier with this discrepancy. I also copied to Mark K some text messaging between Kip and me. All I've got to say is 'this is bullshit, fire me". I watched Buddy go in at Sandwich in '88, the 3rd Tandem double fatality and test jumped his gear when it came back from RWS with blood stains on the main lift web. The guy that hit him had almost 200 jumps. This 300 jump USPA min is disrespectful to people who paid the price for our advancement. If you read the IRM closely, It says Coach OR 300 jumps. You can get a Coach rating with a 100 goddamn skydives!!! Excuse the fact that I've had a martini, but WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE... Sorry I'm such an asshole, Steve Webb 914-588-0190 [email protected] Utah

We are reaping what we've sowed. Shame on us collectively for being such dumb fuckin' yahoos. I am a blond from Kentucky, a dumb ass truckdriving biker. And y'all manage to lower the bar to the point that even a dumb ass like me, who is dumb as a box of rocks with the grades to prove it, has to stand up and say 'are ya finally ready to get your shit together and get this right? Ya dumb fucks? What are ya waiting for, the FAA? Ya dumb fucks...' Utah

..."The ugly truth is, that an individual fucked up and nobody caught it. Absofuckinglutely! So who is to blame for not catching it? My point exactly. responsibility is shared amongst MANY people on the DZ, from the DZO, to the people who trained her, to the TI that geared her up, to the TI himself, the cameraperson, the other TI's on that load, and for that matter, even the other skydivers on that load for not speaking up. No one gets out of an airplane with a tandem harness that looks like hers did....UNLESS that method of putting a tandem harness on a student was 'normal' and had been seen many times before; accepted in the 'culture' on the Dropzone as the way things were done." There are a lot of 'skydivers' with Tandem ratings. Very few Tandem Masters. We(skydivers) are naturally on the fringe of aviation as a whole and our penchant to be yahoos is evident. I/we have been saying for years that the attitude that must be created during the training of TM's is that when you go from an AFF jump to a Tandem jump, your attitude needs to change from 'I am a skydiver with an instructor rating' to 'I am a professional pilot in command of a commercial passenger flight'. And act accordingly. That is why Tandem must be the LAST rating available, period. With the manufacturers giving it up to the uspa and the uspa having a lot in common with AAA when it comes to regulatory strength, these results are to be expected. Utah

This dumbing down of the system of requirements for instructors was what some of us were bitching about, when did RWS drop the AFF minimum, over 15 years ago? Due to strongs market pressure and lower bar? It took us over 20 years, then bam, 2 drops. 15 years then bam, cypres firings. I/we warned about this potential. Now we've got kids with coach saying they want to get the tandem rating 1st because they want to build their skills to get the AFF rating and make money at the same time. And the no-teeth regulations say OK! Are you seeing these tandem videos? The uspa has about as much regulatory strength as AAA. I've been saying to my candidates for years; 'you try hard enough, you can really fuck this up'. I used to chalk up a lot of the early fatalities to ignorance and evolution. Now our only excuse is stupidity. Now I'm scared... If strong has to go down to get the tandem bar raised to where it was in the past or even higher, don't let the screen door hit 'em in the ass.... Utah

As long as everything else physiologically is normal, the harnessing and dive with a sliding landing should be nominal. Just make sure you design the exit facing the wind (no back to wind tailgate exits, for example) to insure the wind doesn't catch the passenger leg straps and move them down. You could, depending on the length of the legs, bind the legs together with tape (at the crotch and the ends) I have done it both ways with good results. Utah

"If you can't deal with all of this then there is no future" FOR YOU "in tandems." word, word, word, brah... go figure........ Utah

I've done tandem jumps with 20+ jumpers in the air with me. It is 100% my responsibility to know and vet each skydiver in my airspace. It is also 100% my responsibility to know where the drogue will end up when I place it. If a videographer or skydiver gets hit with a drogue, it is not his fault. It is the TM's fault, 100%. If, after I place the drogue, the videographer or skydiver in my airspace fly's into it, then it his fault, 100% If you get hit with a drogue because the TM dumped it right out the door, contact the Tandem I/E and report it. It is one of the primary issues concerning UPT in the I/E manual. I have grounded people in the past for re-training concerning this issue. It is no joke. Steveorino's got it 100% right... (this is from another thread) Whens the last time y'all considered the correct procedure for a skydiver entangled in your drogue? How's this sound? Say it looks like he's tied up real good. There is no potential for a drogue release. This is a reserve only situation. You must immediately upon determining that he is not going to untangle, disconnect the RSL and cutaway. This move sets you and your passenger up for future clean air. Next, try to cut the drogue bridle with the hook knife to free you from the entangled skydiver. Why? Because I bet he would much rather just have to deal with a bridle and drogue vs. drogue, bridle, d-bag, main, suspension lines, risers, I mean cut the guy some slack (bad pun) IF YOU'VE GOT THE TIME. Then move to clean air and deploy the reserve only. The alternative is if you can't for some reason cut the drogue bridle, you have to dump your main into the poor guy, fall away, move to clean air and deploy the reserve(don't look back). Now let's say that just after you chop and disconnect the RSL, the SOB manages to clear himself and you're back to standard drogue fall. I personally am going to deploy the main, fall away, get clean air and deploy the reserve. I would just as soon not deploy into a drogue if I don't have to(although it appears to be relatively safe to do so). Utah

Knew that would get a rise... Please, instead of dogma, add to the conversation by offering a real world suggestion as to why some have more locks than others. I know on all the rigs I've owned, a single band works fine and so does 2(the amount of usable band out of the grommet is the same, just less tension). I'm asking for real world input about these locks. Is high tension on the primary 2 stows combined with too big a stow, a viable reason we're seeing more locks? Are the bands too strong, have they changed? Tube stows used to be wrong, too. Look what comes with the rigs now. Many years ago(late 80's early 90's) I went on a personal crusade against the long bands. They were showing up on most of the rigs where I jumped. I'd cut 'em off and get into all kinds of fights. So I took a different look and approach. I went down to RWS and had Lucky And Bobby build me 2 tandem d-bags with the 4 grommet flap extended 2" and I put them in my 2 rigs. The results were more efficient (easier) locking stows, locking stow band breakage reduced by at least 2/3 due to reduced tension. I reported the results and let it go. Never saw another set of bags like 'em. Packers loved 'em. Depending on all of the different variables when putting a 370, 340, 384, 421 in the bag, sometimes it can be a bitch at the 2 primary locking stows and so I understand using the longer band method. I do not condone it or teach it, but accept the reality of it. If a rig I jump has that configuration, I pack it. If it's a single, I pack it. Real World. I do know that higher than necessary tension at the stows can create lots of problems(breakage of the locking stows prior to extraction from the container is one that comes to mind). Should we make tandem tube stows at the grommets mandatory and solve it for good? (I'm sure that'll get a rise, can't stop stirrin'...) Utah

I do know some TM's jumping UPT(me included) and packers use 2 tandem bands put together to make 1 longer band. This is done to make it easier to do the first 2 locking stows. These first 2 stows are very tight due to the size of the canopy and bag configuation. Using a single band and excessive bite size on the first 2 stows say 3 or more inches, may be a contributing factor. I've never come close to a bag lock maybe because of less tension on the primary stows and I never stow more than 1 1/2" interior. The 2 high speed mals I've had were slider streamers on old 421's, which is a whole different subject. Utah

Ah, Yoda Bob... Love your last sentence, I thought I was the only one... Utah

Tandem is not for everyone, which is hard to swallow for some considering the earning potential. It is easy to say that the first thought should not be about the money, but come on... All I can say at my experience level is that I am convinced there is no 'boogey man' and that if you are attracted to a certain discipline, pursue it until it doesn't make sense and then suck it up and move on. The idea is not to allow yourself to get into something that is over your head, but at the same time don't avoid it until you can make an informed decision. Tandem is intense not because of the complexity of the gear but the fact that you are dealing with the general public, start to finish, completely relying on your skill. It is a different 'ballgame' Utah

Yeah, I know, but considering the... Utah

Thanks for the input, I was beginning to think I frightened everyone away! I agree about the cheat sheet. I use it as a catalyst to jump start/set the verbal training side of the eval. process with the goal of getting everyone on the same page before we get into the air(the whole primacy/recency thing). I feel that is the best time to cement the respond vs. react paradigm. I should get off my ass and flesh it out a bit. I felt it was pretty pretentious putting all that out on the thread and hope it wasn't too much(I just couldn't help myself!). Thanks, Utah

Just brought to my attention. In the last 2 sentences it should read 'and you are (not your) back to ' and '(although it appears to be relatively safe to do so). Utah

Just a little more(yeah, right) Concerning UPT bag- lock procedures. If you have cutaway with no riser release. first of all, correct eye positioning prior to the chop is two-fold; check to see if the RSL is connected, then look at the left riser for release during the chop. There is the possibility that after the chop, the right riser releases to pull the reserve pin and the left riser stays put. I would think you would want to know that to grab and manually release it. If you have both risers attached after the chop, if you grab and manually remove the risers you should take at least the right riser and pull it to full arm extension to activate the reserve(you might also want to let it go after that, duh). Another scenario...Whens the last time y'all considered the correct procedure for a skydiver entangled in your drogue? How's this sound? Say it looks like he's tied up real good. There is no potential for a drogue release. This is a reserve only situation. You must immediately upon determining that he is not going to untangle, disconnect the RSL and cutaway. This move sets you and your passenger up for future clean air. Next, try to cut the drogue bridle with the hook knife to free you from the entangled skydiver. Why? Because I bet he would much rather just have to deal with a bridle and drogue vs. drogue, bridle, d-bag, main, suspension lines, risers, I mean cut the guy some slack (bad pun) IF YOU'VE GOT THE TIME. Then move to clean air and deploy the reserve only. The alternative is if you can't for some reason cut the drogue bridle, you have to dump your main into the poor guy, fall away, move to clean air and deploy the reserve(don't look back). Now let's say that just after you chop and disconnect the RSL the SOB manages to clear himself and your back to drogue fall. I personally am going to deploy the main, fall away, get clean air and deploy the reserve. I would just as soon not deploy into a drogue if I don't have to(although it appears to relatively safe to do so). I think that covers it for now.... thanks Utah

This is a cheat cheat I've been handing out for years to my candidates and any TM who wants it. I suggest briefing with something like this everyday of operation. SIGMA AND TV2 TANDEM PROCEDURES AIRCRAFT EMERGENCY ALTITUDE MINIMUMS: 1. 0’ to 1500’ Ride the aircraft down. Student should be unhooked and belted in. 2. 1500’ to 4500’ Reserve only. 3. 4500’ to altitude Standard main deployment. MALFUNCTION DECISION ALTITUDE: 3000’ is the decision altitude minimum (hard deck) for cutting away from a malfunctioning main canopy. This is the minimum you need to stay out of trouble with the AAD. (Imagine the AAD firing the reserve into a high speed streamer!) EMERGENCY PROCEDURES IN FREEFALL: 1. No Drogue (stuck in pouch) 2. Trapped Drogue (against the body) 3. Entangled Drogue (wrapped around something) All of these problems are to be considered as TOTAL MALFUNCTIONS. The correct procedure is the same as in solo jumping: Try to clear 2-3 times, then go immediately to the reserve only. A DROGUE IS NOT A PILOT CHUTE!!! Everything else, from a pilot chute in tow (which is very different from an entangled drogue), to a low or high-speed malfunction, will be handled in the proper sequence only. An entangled or trapped drogue must be discovered before any handles are pulled! If you make the mistake of assuming that your drogue is deployed properly (no visual check and no foot check on the back of the container), you may use the wrong procedure and potentially murder your student and kill yourself. (especially on a V-2) A deployed drogue becomes a pilot chute-in-tow only when both the main and the secondary pilot chute release handles have been pulled with no results or, the handle(s) won’t come out for some reason. Arguments go either way on whether you should cutaway or not. An out of sequence deployment, responded to improperly, is responsible for the most tandem fatalities. The Tandem Master must re-sequence the deployment. If for any reason the main container comes open in freefall you must: 1. Deploy the drogue (if not deployed) and turn it into a pilot chute with the pilot chute(drogue) release handles and observe the results. 2. Cut away the malfunction and observe the results. 3. Pull the reserve Obviously, if you react without thinking, instead of thinking and responding, and cut away and pull the reserve, or just pull the reserve, the chance of a main-reserve entanglement is well documented. A deployed drogue is not a pilot chute until the pilot chute(drogue) release handle(s) have been pulled. DO NOT REACT DURING AN EMERGENCY OR ANY OTHER TIME! RESPOND There’s a big difference. Take that deep breath to pull it all together, or spend the rest of your short life wishing you had. GEAR AND HANDLE CHECKS: DO THEM! (On the ground, in the plane, in the air, the same way, and every time) Not doing these checks is just F*****G STUPID. And F*****G STUPID people should stay on the STUPID F*****G ground. This goes for all other checks, too. Don’t let someone else screw up because you weren’t keeping an eye out for other jumpers’ gear mistakes. SIDE SPINS and OUT-OF CONTROL TUMBLING You must remember not to let the dynamic that creates the spin or tumble to continue. You must break the problem created by the TM and Passenger body position, then present to the relative wind. The following procedure will ALWAYS work. It is just simple physics… Forcefully pulling down the students arms as far as possible with your own and holding them, keeping your legs as wide as possible (do not waste time trying to get the passengers legs with your legs) will eventually stop any spinning or tumbling and turn it into a head down barrel roll. You then recover to your belly with an explosive, hard arch by the TM, then immediate drogue throw. REMEMBER: FLY FIRST, THEN PLACE THE DROGUE, CHECK IT’S PLACEMENT, DO ALL HANDLE CHECKS, THEN HAVE FUN! Please contact me at anytime regarding harnessing, deployment body positioning, containment and/or landing procedures concerning ‘outside the ordinary’ passengers, etc. Thanks, Steve ‘Utah’ Webb 914.588.0190 [email protected] Utah

Hmmm, fliritng, hmmm, OK, 'nuff said(only you know how it could be...). The Idea of getting people to understand that 'Sully's' are created(a combo of self and institutional training) and should be what we aspire to and Examiners should direct toward. Tandem should be 'no room for yahoos, this is serious shit with the innocent public, yo'... Utah

Yo TK, can't wait to see ya again, my friend. 80's, early 90's when tandem was 'oh yeah!... I was considering what would happen on the same jump today with a Collins/RSL/RDS. A whole lot different, I bet... Deb sends her love and you don't wanna know what I'm thinkin' 'bout you, you 'hunka, hunka'... Utah

This is going to be long, but I'm copying the dialog between me and the TM. We also had a great conversation on the phone... Please call, I love talkin' about this stuff... Steve - I'm interested in you expanding your comment about the SIGMA Malfunction. You mentioned that I screwed up by having both handles and i'm not sure what you meant (as well other people). Please update your response so I can learn. Sorry if I sounded abrasive, I tend to do that to get someones attention especially during an evaluation. Being allowed to operate a tandem rig means you are in a professional capacity with another person relying on your skill to keep them as safe as possible. When I do a UPT Tandem eval. course, one of the first things the candidate hears is the absolute need to RESPOND intelligently to a situation, not REACT. There is a huge difference. To work our gear safely, we must use correct sequencing. To do that, we must begin the action(say cutting away), observe the RESULTS of the action, and then RESPOND accordingly. In your case, the fact that the risers had not cleared but the reserve handle had been pulled meant you did not observe the result of the act of cutting away to insure clean air for the reserve. You reacted instead of responded, which is why your hands are full of handles with the risers still attached. It also may have been an over sight in your training. Please let me pose you a question and a phone call would be great... I have 13 tandem chops in 22 years. 2 high speed, the rest low. All on Vector 2 or Sigmas(all with RSL's, with and without skyhook). On all 13 I've had my hand on the reserve handle during the cutaway but have never pulled it,and I mean never. Why didn't I pull the reserve handle? 914-588-0190 Utah Steve - thanks for the clarification, that actually helps explain your comment. Like I said, i'm here to learn, and I think that putting the gist of this PM on the thread is good learning (the respond vs react). I've tried to be open and honest in this thread because my point was explain to other TMs that there is a possibility of risers not releasing. For better or worse - in my 15 years of jumping - that scenerio has never happened or been discussed. Therefore, I reacted as I had been trained and never even considered that the risers wouldn't release. My hope is that my pictures will gain attention, and other experts can help teach other TMs how to better handle emergencies so we avoid fatalities...in your case, the respond vs react is a great addition. Finally - to answer your question, your RSL has worked on your chops. Yesterday, all of our instructors were discussing this and came to the same conclusion - get away from what i was taught and been teaching for 14 years during FJCs (i.e. RSL is a backup - don't rely on it - always pull reserve), and move towards a version of what you say - CHOP - Look (if all is well RSL will pull reserve) - and if necessary - clear problems and pull reserve. I'm about to head out to the DZ, we have our first busy day of the season so i'll be busy. I may try to call you in about 45 minutes if that's okay (its a short drive to the DZ). My number is (512)964-0408 and email is [email protected]. Again - thanks for the clarification, and I hope you put a version of this on the thread to help teach others. I'm just glad my fate wasn't the same as the Guam fatality. Absolutely. Reading between the lines in the 'finally" paragraph, you can see the oversight that is rife in the industry... We are taught and then teach single harness dual parachute thinking. which is basically 'dump' then 'holy shit!' then 'ka-ching, ka-ching, hope this works' then 'ha ha, f'you reaper'. Respond vs. React is easy to say but real hard to do in our environment and double hard in tandem. A tandem rig has 6 sequences that are used vs. 3 on sport rigs (without RSL's) 1)drogue deployment, 2-3) primary/secondary pilot chute (drogue) release handles, 4)cutaway, 5)primary reserve deployment device(RSL) 6)secondary reserve deployment device(red handle). That is the correct method of thinking with this gear. It is a complex piece of equipment. Some folks look at me like I'm crazy never to have pulled the reserve handle; not realizing that I didn't need it. I've heard stuff like "just making sure" "makes me feel good" "it's the right thing to do", etc. The "just making sure" is the most egregious because they are saying that they don't know what the gear is doing. and are operating in the 'boogey-man vs.reality'; 'hope vs. know' world. We all get the 'holy shit' kick when something happens like a mal, but the true pro then goes 'OK, got that in check, let's go to work gettin' this right' which is 'action, check results, respond accordingly'. That type of thinking is the difference between a skydiver with a tandem rating and a Tandem MASTER. Utah Utah

It is. The better question to ask is - with the normal drag of a collapsed drogue, and the risers DO release during a bag lock - after the riser activates the RSL, is there data that the bag and drogue will clear the opening reserve and not fall into it? I believe the answer is yes.I would like to have input from UPT. There is a good deal of drag from the collapsed drogue to clear the baglock as you fall away( watch how much time it takes the Drogue/baglock to hit the ground). If you do a test and pull the risers on the ground you get plenty of extension to activate the RSL. The guy in the picture screwed up. If you do the procedure correctly, you can't be holding the cutaway handle and the reserve handle at the same time Utah

Hey Tom, good to here ya. Learning a 'PLF' with a round(wasn't that fun...) was getting a particular body position to deal with not only vertical but angled descent. Remember downwind accuracy with a round? Wasn't THAT fun... With the posed question, the answer that first comes to mind is; would you use a tuck-n-roll (PLF) in any situation where the ground is coming up faster than stepping of a bench? Answer: good idea. Pick the scenario. Getting Students feet below them on their first solo parachutes is a bitch especially if you involve 3 Tandems. It is hard to overcome but not insurmountable. A lot more that just a touch. As you know that "legs up" tandem landing is the lesser of 2 evils so to speak. Can you imagine the overall carnage not doing that? Give me a call, dude Utah