mikempb

What is a BAD thing? If you don't agree with my opinion ok let's move past it. You put a value on something as bad. You can't know what is bad unless you know what is good. If there is no universal law then there is no good or bad

Well I tried....

Forgive me but I won't respond to references to the bible that will get us off tract faster than you can blink. My entire argument is that there is a constant unchanging set of absolute morals. When something is perfect it is unchanging because there is nothing to change or improve. If you disagree with absolute morals to be universally true then that's your relative finite belief. There are relative beliefs but not relative truths. Ex. The world can't be round and flat one is true one is false when people believed the world was flat it didn't make it true

True. very true

Do me a favor? Don't put words in my mouth I don't put in there myself .. Fair enough? I am debating 10 other people at a time in here ( and loving it ) I've never been ashamed nor will I ever be of my belief and love for God. When people don't believe sometimes they have an emotional block sometimes an intellectual one apologetics can Help someone see a side of faith they normally wouldn't. I agree you need faith and faith alone to truly believe this is a stepping stone

I agree I would sever an extremity to save your life. But that's consistent with my claim because my Reaction ( if it were me) would be to cut mine off too

I'm not talking about a kinky type of s&m I'm talking about horrific life ending pain so I think it's your interpretation that is flawed

I have been making claims based on reasoning to provide a possible answer but the claim that whales may have soles is pure speculation without any evidence I'm afraid you would have to be the one to show some proof fir that and I know you meant it hypothetically but to entertain for that for that right now isn't realistic

Here's the best way to define moral absolutism. It is judged not by your ACTIONS but your REACTIONS. Example you may think it's ok to kill and tourture, but what happens if your the one about to be tourtured????? You would know instantly it is universally wrong. And that's the best way I can put it.

Those are perfect examples of relativism. If you eat granny so she is inside of you may be relatively right but universally wrong. Rape may not have been considered rape but rape it was. The cannibalism issue is more difficult to classify if the person has died naturally and you need to survive that's different than cannibalism out of sacrifice of a victim to eat for ceremony or enjoyment

Well exuse me but I'm a fireman and at work for 24 hrs and got about 2 hrs sleep last night so feel free to disregard anything I write for fear I may make mistakes

Your right what I meant to say is that people who think cannibalism is ok is a relative truth but it's universally wrong same with rape your right some people think it's ok but that doesn't mean it is. Absolute truth is that it's wrong. Remember not believing in the truth doesn't make it not true. If you don't believe in gravity you wont float away. It's true weather you believe it or not

Even though we shifted to a moral argument the reason I abandoned this one is there are No Perfect vacuums not even space is a perfect vacuum. Therefore matter was there all along then they say look we created something out of nothing. It is not even close to an accurate experiment.

I see your point, buy you're still putting a value on reaching an age to have children and putting a value on the children. If we are all molecules in motion we still wouldn't care about that. I believe without there being God. Ultimately life has no meaning. If there are universal truths like it's wrong to rape and that's true for ALL peole ALL the time that goes beyond relative truths like cannibals who think it's ok to eat people one culture is ok with a set of morals another is repulsed by the same set.

Hey coreece. I agree. I love the bible but if people in here don't believe in it, it's hard to prove your point by quoting it

Well I'd like to leave the bible out of it for now. I think absolute morality comes from an unchanging perfect entity . My reasoning is if we are all here by chance then we are just chemical reactions and nothing we do is right or wrong.

Let's all agree to disagree. I would love to bring up the moral argument to see what crazy roller coaster ride that will be If I may, another avenue for further evidence for me is objective and relative beliefs. You may believe something is right or wrong and I may believe something completely different. That is relative beliefs. But there is a universal right and wrong out there. Where does that universal moral come from. It can't come from us because we are imperfect therfore we cannot agree to know what is perfect truth Let's start there and I'll give examples in a bit

No that's why I explained myself rather carefully after that

Good question but there still had to be a point it came into being.

I'm on my I phone and I'm taking short cuts. Let me put it this way. There are no perfect vacuumes in a laboratory they are defined by how close to perfect they are. But they are not perfect. I know a vacuum is a place void of matter as you know but until that test is done in a pecect vacuum and then matter created it stands in dispute.

Not sure what you mean. by timeless I mean he was before time. He always was. To truly be infinite there is no beginning or end. The universe is finite it had a beginning and it will have an end.

That's not exactly how it was to be interpreted. There is energy all around us. When the scientist made the device to run the test and made a vacuum there was energy in there already. We have no technology that I know of to void that out of the equation.

What im trying to establish is the circumstances how a designer created the universe. That isn't my evidence for a God simply what kind of being he would have to be

I brought this up in the other thread. They are in a vacuume and there is plenty of energy in there.

Cosmological Unless we disagree here its probably agreed the universe had a beginning. My premise is that something can not come out of nothing. Space Time Matter according to Einstein must all be present this is Natural law. So if there is a creator and I said IF then he must be timeless. Space less and immaterial. Any objections so far?