980

for the month of November, 2005:

I jumped 53 586 ft vs. climbing 49 376 ft.

it took 113 jumps in 25 jumping days

the other 4 210 ft I got a combination of car, boat and Unimog rides for

Tom Manship, I have not known you for long, but it has been a pleasure and a privelige to share an exit point with you, at sunrise, for more than a week running, last summer.

Seeing you at Dirty Ernies for breakfast this bridgeday made my trip, I'm glad we had a chance to catch up.

Go well Tom, you will be missed, and from now I'll be dedicating every sunrise jump to you with remembrance, a thought and a smile.


my condolences to all Tom's family and friends

he is an inspiration to many

maybe try here: ZP 155 EXE

I have about 200 jumps on one.

Square 9 cell, zero porosity (Gelvenor - the S.A. fabric), came in two versions, the earlier ZP and the later ZP EXE.

Flies kinda like a Sabre, but a bit more groundhungry and steeper glide angle and a little less flare. Mine never spanked me like I know a Sabre can, but it never opened wonderfully soft like my Nitro does, it's somewhere inbetween.

I think a good wingsuit canopy, stable in twists etc.

don't sweat it about Abbie, he's still pissed that he wasn't allowed any awesome pizza (no cheese for him before sharing a car with people offended by his flatulence) recently in Moab...

I do know where he's coming from, though and he's venting about the trends in people starting base lately, not just about your question.

What concerns me most is that you posted a man's shoe - is there something you want to tell us??

That said, people have posted some good advice, avoid those shoes, get decent boots like Hanwag or Crispi and wear them every jump.

Obviously style and sleekness are important to you, so rest assured that wearing good paragliding type boots will keep your ankles and lower legs looking more stylish and sleek than jumping in fashionable lowtops indefinitely...

but then, I bet there's some freaks (probably Abbie and that's where the break your ankles comment came from) who has a deviant fetish for women with large, swollen, scarred ankles, the kind that good boots would help avoid.... you know, just check out that movie: 'Crash' and you'll know who I'm talking about..

I think you'll find the Hanwag boots (I think the Cripsi boots too) quite resistant to becoming smelly and fungus infected - could be due to the use of gore-tex.

I know I've worn my Hanwags for 17 days of jumping and hiking/climbing in a row and I never found myself wanting any other footwear on.

oh yeah, about that 'loving you all' bit, are you going to be at any of the base events next year?

cya
sam

Thanks RhondaLea, I haven't laughed this much in a while!



I'm not sure if you caught this, as it didn't stay on the forums for too long, but skreamer coined a wonderful word for statements like this:

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not sure intelligent and wuffo go together.... but they do in this instance

and the term is: fugget

PM skreamer for the definition, he tells it best and he needs the attention...

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I just wait for that moment when the little voice says its ok

So you actually hear a little voice in your head and you listen to it? I think I'm starting to understand you a bit.

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There will be a pause when you think and feel nothing

and then you get an uncontrolable urge to post in any forum on any topic before that moment has passed?

m1keymike -

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i am unsure as to what it is holding me back

you're just not entirely ready for that jump yet

examine your motivation and if you still need a bit of peer pressure type encouragement, go to bridgeday and let the crowd spur you on - worked for someone who was having a hard time going in 2004...

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GB jumped because UncleCharlie jumped, he loves him.

hmm... who is it we have here?

barely has UncleCharlie stepped into fray and...

I'd like to nominate GB for:

'Biggest crush on another basejumper of 2005'



as for those conditions - they were fine! I was totally not even going backwards anymore when I landed.

You'd have to be a real mincer to only do one load..

or for going all the way up and not doing an aerial, especially if you're even packed slider up!!

cya

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No you can see that for yourself.

now that sounds like a deal!

thanks for the offer of a lift, but it's a few days too early, so...

I just got my arrangements finalized and I am now in the position to offer other AFFC-goers a ride from JHB to the AFFC on 29 Dec and a ride from AFFC to JHB on 2 Jan.

PM me anyone who needs a ride

cya
sam

oh come on, who are you kidding?

why bother bringing a rig to the UK?

the weather is always terrible..

for example, I bet you'll never manage to drag 4 of you UK locals out at night to go jump in crazy high winds (and some rain too)...

even if it is really early, like before dinnertime...

thanks dudes!

would've been nice though if the hard men who were talking all kinds of scary jumps in the UK (in that other thread a while back) actually bothered replying to my PMs and took me out to one of those scary jumps....

to keep this on topic, though, I would like to nominate a British person (cannot name him) for the 'best BASE priorities', for putting BASE before some other big event and coming to jump in crazy winds rather than wrapping himself in cotton until his big event.

sounds like you should post a pic of you in the bikini!

or it should....

Who else is going for the flocking?

I'm going to be there, just have to finalize my travel arrangements.

If you're going to be flocking there, post a pic of you in your wingsuit, so foreigners like me can recognize you!

here's mine (attached)

see you there

sam

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After checking the protrack graph there was no speed greater than 55mph below 1400' he pulled in full flight (graph shows this also) and cypres fired with main deployment at 840'

What kind of canopy was he jumping?

I did say soft opening canopy as this should largely avoid the pressure change spike that will fire an armed Cypres (exactly what happened to that jumper, as they were open above 750ft)

I also don't trust the protrack graphs for that info.

the lesson he learned should have been: adjust your hard deck so that you will always have a flying canopy above 1100 ft if you want to avoid a Cypres fire...

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He pulled around 1000 ft (alti visable in video) and was in the sadle at around 900/800ft or so..(opened up in a twist)

So he didn't quite make the activation altitude...but definately skimmed the edges...

thanks for the extra info

given how little altitude the deployment used and that the jumper does base, I assumed he pulled in full flight and kept flying

what kind of canopy was he jumping?

I ask, because, from my wingsuit deployments on my Nitro120 if I pull in full flight, I'll go from wingsuit flight to flying canopy in very little altitude (say 250-350ft for that canopy), without ever exceeding the 78mph required to arm the Cypres. I know this from data from my Suunto X6, Neptune and Pro-tracks.

it's kinda my point with this thread, flying a modern day wingsuit and having a soft opening canopy and pulling in full flight will mean you could pull so low that you would have had a Cypres fire were you not in the wingsuit.

it's one of the many reasons that we should be even more altitude aware on wingsuit jumps (I got a second audible this year) and we should pull higher than on other skydives

we should never rely on just one way to keep track of altitude either, I always check my visual altis against each other and other people's altis on the plane ride, I have two audibles to remind me, I have a flight plan and I know where I should be at what altitude and I know what kind of freefall time to expect on the jump, so I start that stopwatch in my head when I exit the door...

thanks for posting that

it's slightly confusing, though, so I have a few questions:

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He suddenly realized he was getting low when he started getting windmills in the corner of his eye and deployed straight away. One of the shortest canopy rides I've witnessed....that's for sure..

this makes it sound like he pulled really low, like under 1000ft low? or have you just not seen very short canopy rides?

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luckily his cypress didnt fire....

OK, so he had a Cypres.

Was it turned on?

Was it set correctly?

Was he actually open above activation altitude, or did he fly through activation altitude with an armed Cypres, too slow to activate the Cypres and managed to get a flying canopy without ever picking up enough descent rate to activate the Cypres?

Or did he smoke it so low the Cypres disarmed itself again (130ft) and he somehow managed to get a flying canopy before hitting the ground real hard?

there are a few important parameters (all are approximate AGL) here, namely:

1100 ft - the altitude your Cypres will arm if it calculates you are exceeding 78 mph descent rate

78mph - the calculated descent rate threshold for arming and also for firing your Cypres

750ft - the altitude your Cypres will fire at if it is armed and you are exceeding 78mph calculated descent rate

130ft - the altitude that your Cypres will disarm, regardless of descent rate

apparently (was told by someone at SSK) 90% of Cypres fires occur above 750 ft AGL, because once armed (over 78mph descent rate at 1100ft), your Cypres will ALSO fire if it senses a sufficiently rapid and/or large change in air pressure - like the one you would get going from a horizontal orientation to a vertical one as your main sits you up...

curious to see some more info!

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I agree totally, this is one thing we can't allow to set in. Complacency is one of our worst enemies in this sport we call skydiving.

nice work stating the obvious there...

I think I actually prefer when you post a fugget because it's more entertaining...

So, what is your plan for combating complacency in skydiving?

awesome post!

since I mostly agree with everything you have posted, here's some clarification on my post:

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Recommeding the ratings is a great idea as there are many transferable skills.

I went with the PRO rating / stadium demos instead of competing in accuracy because of the site evaluation and probably limited and technical outs on most stadium demos.

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You've made 996 jumps. If you thought that the rigger rating was that important, you did have the time and money. What you probably mean is that it is in fact, a very low priority to you.

of those 996 jumps, 350 are skydives since I started base and 290 are basejumps, all in last 1.5 years, which is how long I have been basejumping for.
I have more (12) than the required number of instructor-observed reserve repacks. I have learned practically everything a basic rigger course would teach me from a few riggers. getting the knowledge and skills has been my priority, getting the rating is important to me, but having moved to a new continent and country 2.5 years ago and changed jobs twice in that time, I have limited money and time to work with and since I started basejumping I have either not had the vacation time from work (welcome to North America, here's 2 weeks a year vacation regardless of your work experience, because you're new to our company...), or I have had the time to dedicate a week to it, but opted to go see my family instead, or go to the Perrine to get super current and learn in the more forgiving environment. After I started base and acquired most of the knowledge and skills the course would have given me, being current and learning in a forgiving environment was to me the better option to keep safe than spending the time getting the actual rating. Also, most of my skydives are made on the weekends, so finding time to do them are easy enough. Finding a whole week of vaction time in a 1.5 year period (from your 2 weeks a year) that co-incides with the schedule of the courses offered is a lot harder. When I finally had the time and money, the choice was between the rigging course and a month at the Perrine followed by Moab. I've wanted to do Moab for a while and I figured a month at Perrine is better preparation than doing a course that wouldn't add anything to my present base knowledge and skills.

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Think about the mechanical actions involved in correcting heading. It is not that complicated.

I agree with that.
The awareness and experience is what I regard as more important here and that's far more rare in lowtime skydivers.
My favourite example here would be the highly experienced professional paraglider pilot who took up base with very little skydives (I think none, actually) jumped a building in what was reported as 'sub-optimal' conditions and had a buildingstrike...
Some more deployment experience might have changed his decision process or let him know earlier that's something's not right.

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IF the million jump wonder chooses to ignore you

ok, first, I didn't mean all of that part literally, it's my sense of humour...

Second, I'm not about to think I'm even nearly ready to teach anyone to start base, so have no fear for your friends and loved ones' safety. I might reconsider my readiness if I ever get up to 1000 basejumps, but even then I don't think I actually would ever want to teach anyone base.

Lets imagine there is a skydiver with literally a million skydives, my theory is that this person will ask all the right questions and do the required preparation before showing up at the Perrine and saying they want to jump.
I'm basing this purely on my limited experience with skydivers with 1000+, compared to skydivers with 5000+ jumps when they start base.
Of course, if they act like a know-it-all and have no interest in anyone's advice, then I'm steering clear of them.


OK, onto the incidents:

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Now, did you actually determine the root cause of the incidents?????

I am 95% sure that we have.

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this tells me that you have been in the sport for a short time (), and you are doing multi ways off cliffs????

yes and no

I have been actively jumping since my FJC in July 2004. I saw the first cliffstrike in March this year, I had around 100 basejumps then and it was not a 2-way, I went first and due to the nature of the jump (450ft to impact, 2300ft to landing) I could watch the next jumper while flying my canopy.

The next cliffstrike I saw, was in Moab this year and that was a 2-way. I had around 280 basejumps then, which includes 50-something 2 ways and just over 10 cliffjumps.

Am I pushing the limits by doing 2 ways off cliffs at this early stage?

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I'd like to temper your experience with mine. In my long time in the sport, I have seen a number of accidents and fatalitites as well as many near misses, and I can categorically give you a reason for each one of those. And the most common factor is that people do dumb things. I have done them, my jumping mates have done them.

like I said, I'm 95% certain I know the reasons for the strikes

one is easy - my friend did a dumb thing

the other is not so easy, it involved an experienced jumper (400+ jumps) on an object I believe he has 200+ jumps from, no dumb things involved there at all, seemed like a number of fairly normal things happened in series and resulted in a bigger issue than the object was willing to forgive

the third strike I saw was from the ground, the jumper seemed to do OK until his canopy opened and hauled ass at the wall, he did a great job on the rears and got it off the wall, missed hitting the talus by not very damn much and stood up his landing. I don't know what his DBS are like or his wingloading or his packjob. he did have the same model and configuration of canopy as the experienced jumper from strike no.2, maybe there is more to that...

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If you look at your own group and your own experience and compare it to other groups, I would suggest that the incident rate is high.

none of the three strikes I saw involved people from my group

they were all by jumpers from other areas and on my travels

I have seen 3 incidents from people in my group, but I have also seen a lot of jumps in that time.

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You may think I am an arsehole, and I may have jumped incorrectly to conclusions (sorry if I have), but the fact remains, the incident rate of your group IS high.

Given the information above, would you still consider that high for my group?

I don't think you're an arsehole for saying that, I think my time in the sport and my post does not make it easy to get the right idea about how many jumps I have seen and how many are by my group.

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You are asking to back this up with real data. This is almost soundling like someone is fending off an allegation that they do not want to hear. The first step to overcoming a problem is to recognise that it exists in the first place. Several cliff strikes IS A PROBLEM, and it IS ABOVE AVERAGE.

like I said, none of those clifstrikes by any of the people in my group, I get around a lot, so I got to see a lot in the last 1.5 years

I would say I have seen at least 2000 basejumps, so I don't think the roughly 10 incidents I have seen on those are out of line. I've only seen about 100 cliffjumps, though, so 3 cliffstrikes does seem out of line there, they were slider off cliffs, though.

that's it for the extra info

the rest of your post is right-on, thanks!

cya
sam

nice one!

that's pretty crafty for a member of APOOPA!!

you guys crack me up

edited to add: if I'm annoying halfwit fucknuckles like you, then I must be doing something right!

also, if you bother to read what I wrote, I never said anyone should be limited to only their mentor's advice and opinions

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It's a Mr. Miyagi wax-on wax-off thing. I'll take you rock climbing and platform diving before I even jump with you.

well, there goes our jumping together, I guess...

I'm too scared of heights to go on a diving platform and there's no way I'm wearing those tight girly shoes they use for rock climbing...




oh, to stay on topic:

70 skydives - still not enough

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Name 5 people who've really done that.

me, maggot, brad, trent, max

edited to add: sorry Tom, couldn't resist

it's totally out of context, though, as of that 5, I'm the only one who had a relatively low number of skydives (around 350) when I started base

and I don't think I would describe my progression so far as typical for anyone ( who doesn't have a severe jumping addiction)

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By jumping of the Perrine many times and continuing their skydiving career alongside their initial BASE career, having a BASE canopy in their skydiving rig permanently.

I don't buy it.

I learned far more about parachute deployments (and flight too) by doing 200+ skydives in one year on an elliptical canopy loaded at 1.7 while jumping my wingsuit, than I did by doing 50+ basejumps from the perrine in two weeks after my FJC.

and the knowledge and skills do transfer

I'm getting some MAD swoops on my blackjack now

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Woah, I'm not sure if you'll want to jump with us when you move here.

I'll jump with pretty much anyone at least once...

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None of the three active jumpers here live up to your benchmark.

it's not a benchmark, it's just my opinion

I didn't have all those when I started either, in fact, even though I have packed my own reserve the last 3 times, I still haven't made the time (and had the money at the same time) to get my rigger's rating.

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I guess we'll all soon be dead anyway.

I predict in less than 90 years!!

nice comeback, by the way...

I certainly did not mean that you need all the things I listed to survive basejumping.

having them will certainly put you at an advantage though, compared to not having them

it might make the difference when it counts

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I've met people who I'd introduce in the world of BASE with less than fifty skydives

really?

How did/would they learn good awareness during and familiarity with deployments?

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I've met much more people who I wouldn't let near a BASE rig even if they had a million skydives and fifty rigger certificates.

if I'm at the Perrine and someone with a million skydives showed up and said they wanted to jump, I'd hand them one of my packed rigs no problem.

if they go-in, I'll have the BEST story EVER!!

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In the proper hands, BASE isn't as dangerous as many think. At least not from a scientific point of view.

that's interesting

in my short time in this sport, I have seen 3 cliffstrikes in person ( two while I was under canopy flying away from the cliff the other jumper hit), helped carry three friends to vehicles and then to hospital and seen two life flight helicopters pick up very experienced and talented jumpers....

I'd love to see the data you base that statement on.

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But I hear what you're saying, looking forward to hucking Vancouver with ya soon.

soon as I get there...


picture something that looks like an AA meeting, but with loads of dudes wearing tie-dye:

'Hi, my name is Sam and I have a jumping problem...'

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That's nonsense and you know it. You have an opinion, and with that amount of jumps, given in the proper context, it can be very useful.

this is my opinion regarding this matter:

- you should have your PRO rating and some stadium demo jumps before starting base

- you should be a rigger before starting base

- you should get to know the local basejumpers before starting base

- you should have a mentor before starting base

no who has bothered to do that would need to make the post that started this thread


edit for thread title ~TA

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I'll reply to this when I get home. (530EST)
Coco

better yet, why not do woodpecker a favour and don't bother to post any more gear advice and opinions to this thread ?



woodpecker - gear sizing and selection is not something that should be decided based mainly on internet forum posts

you will find a lot of people with way too little experience posting all kinds of advice...

when someone with many hundreds of basejumps on loads of different gear posts their advice and opinions on gear - pay attention

when someone with 15 base jumps in 1.5 years (according to their profile) posts 3 of the 10 replies you have received so far - you have to wonder...

your mentor is actually the best place to get this advice, assuming you have a mentor and you have chosen one wisely.

some of Tom's articles on getting started covers how to choose one and why you need one

get some more skydives too, you'll be glad you did later

cya
sam

PS - I have over a hundred jumps with a velcro rig and almost double that on my pin rigs, but I'm not going to be posting gear advice because I know I don't have enough experience to.

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All jokes aside...whats the point in 'someone being too stupid'?
It seems the only answer you're looking for his 'yea...this guy...hahaha, he's stupid'

There are better ways of asking something if it's constructive criticism you want to give....

there's no point in anyone being too stupid..

I went with that turn of phrase because I knew it would get more views and so a wider catch area for information.

It's not a personal attack directed at some anynomous person, if I was to indulge in personal attacks they would be aimed squarely at the likes of leroy for the kind of high quality, topical posts he's well known for.

and to clarify, if someone does end up knowing of someone in a wingsuit who:

-lost altitude awareness and had their cypres fire

- had a high-speed mal so low that their cypres fired

...then I would say that they did something stupid to get themselves into that situation.

We all do stupid things sometimes and that makes us stupid for that moment, whereas we might normally not be considered stupid.

Some people just tend to have a lot more of those moments and more frequently...

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But what I mean is...people make mistakes....and we can either learn from it, or laugh about it and call them stupid a**holes...I prefer the 1st..

I don't see why I can't do both?

certainly when I do something stupid I expect my friends to point, laugh and call me a stupid asshole, - it's all about having a sense of humour

I'm wondering if anyone has had a cypres fire while jumping a wingsuit?

If you know of one, please speak up.

If it was an unconscious skydiver or a mis-fire I'll retract the stupid comment, other than that I stand by it.

thanks