ORGASMO

Dude, not everyone buys a cobalt for swooping. I have had 3 Atair canopies and I do not swoop. I like them for the openings, ability to open at high speed, and great for wing suiting. They will come back from a loooonnnngg spot, and they are very stable in turbulent conditions. Also if you spin one up wingsuiting it usually flies nice and straight without diving while you get yourself unspun. They have tons of flare and can be very forgiving for a fully eliptical canopy. and are a great transition canopy. I have flown both Katana and Crossfire canopies, and I still llike the Cobalt/Alphas better. But thats just my opinion. ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

There is video, I saw it live on USTREAM. It was a monster swoop. Thanks to FLCPA (Albert?) for the live feed and letting us hear the scores in real time, a great idea by somebody! Thanks also to Greg Windmiller for the great commentary on Sat. It would be great if someone was able to live feed from Klatovy! ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

What exactly is the Wings "moded D-bag" ? the pic seems to show an extra "flap" on the bottom of the bag... if so, for what purpose? I just bought a new Wings, didn't get the w/s corners (my main is not overstuffed in the container), but did get a 9' bridle...and not a larger pilot chute as I jump a Cobalt 150 and from what I read they don't like larger pilot chutes. I also use the top of bag stow option as it (in theory) would allow less bag rotation when the stows release. Does placing the bag grommet facing up really aid in a smoother deployment sequence, I have heard conflicting points of view, but the one against was not a w/s'er (anyone?)? It is all being put together today and I will be jumping it with my new-to-me R-Bird tomorrow, weather permitting...weather god has forsaken us here in Atlantic Canada so far this year ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

This was my first thread, I enjoy reading and learning far more than posting and getting the expected "you're a dumb ass and don't even know what you don't know" responses. I realize my "opinion" is not the popular one, however I felt strongly enough on this subject to subject myself to the non agreeable responses in hopes of learning more on the subject, and also hoped it may provoke other jumpers to inform themselves of the very involved and intricate details of AAD functionality and design as it pertains to various containers. Thank you to all who took the time to post and pass on their knowledge, experience and opinions, even you Sparky, sincerely. If we are ever at the same DZ I would not hesitate to buy you a beer and chat more on the subject, as I do not discount your experience or knowledge just because we have a difference of opinions. ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

"I think AAD's _should_ be mandated up to a certain point. Pretty much all DZ's require them for students, some require them up to a certain license. After that, I agree, you should be able to choose on your own - but I also understand why a DZO might not want to see another avoidable fatality at his DZ." Yes, just in case you missed it, I did state that I do agree with mandated use for tandems and students.We are on the same page. "If AAD's really bother you, jump at a place that does not require them. Or get one and don't turn it on. Or get your rigger's ticket and do whatever you please. Your choice." Good advice. I do/will be doing the first two suggestions you made, but have no interest in obtaining a rigger's ticket (yet). Are riggers exempt from mandated AAD use at DZ's or countries where AAD use is mandated? Thank you for your constructive input. ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

"And if you aren't a sheep how come you continue to jump in a situation you find intolerable? Baaaaa Baaaa" This as at least the third time in this thread you have either grossly misquoted me or attributed statements to me that are not mine. Can you please show me where I said "I am jumping in a situation I find intolerable"? Your posts/opinion may carry more weight or be viewed with a greater regard if you did not resort to misquoting or trying to put words in other peoples' mouth to try and make your point. You seem to have tons of experience and knowledge and I am glad you are taking the time to share your opinions,thoughts and information with us on this topic, however misrepresenting what others are saying and refusing to believe anything your fellow skydivers post unless backed up by a "link", "report" or "written statement" only lessens your credibility. A quote from one of your fellow riggers in response to you in the "Cypres2 fire on ground" thread is very well put, Koppel writes to you: "Sparky, you have often asked people to provide information on events that are purported to have occurred. You ask in this case for the report from the manufacturer."........... While I recognise that you are trying to prevent hearsay and rumour from being spread as fact you also need to acknowledge that not every event that occurs ends up with a public report that we can create a link to for all to read and say to ourselves 'see, there it is written from the factory so it must be true' Whilst my own personal experience as a rigger is many years less than your own I have seen with my own eyes enough events occur that have never made it to the general public even though it has been reported to the relevant persons/factories/federations." You are coming across as calling your fellow skydivers at worst liars, and at best unreliable sources of pertinent information. Not a very useful tool for debate. I for one will no longer waste my time replying to someone who has so little regard for their peers. As you have stated before the only opinions that matter are those of the rigging community, so I will wait for the rigging community to come to "agreement" on this topic and accept it, as I am not qualified to even have an opinion. Edit: to underline the sarcasm of my last sentence ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

"As a jumper the only thing you bring to the table is the potential for added liability" No sir, that is not true.I (jumpers collectively) bring the $$$ needed to keep the plane flying and put some money in the DZO's pocket, if there are no jumpers there are no drop zones, business 101 tells you that a business is responsible to their customers, NOT the other way around. Although I have met a few DZO's who wish to see it from your point of view. At the end of the day a DZ only exists because of jumpers. So if we ALL stomp our feet and hold our breath collectively (which will never happen) our wishes would be heard! Or we could all just carry on being sheep and have others make decisions for us that we may not like. I will not be a sheep and tow the "politically correct" line if I feel it is not in my best interest. ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

"Farther up thread you posted this a proof that Vigil was out of control" I did? I see the post you are referring to, however I see no such wording. My entire post follows: "Not directed at you personally Dave, I just thought this was a good piece of information, something I haven't been aware of until it popped up on another thread "Vigil fire" http://viewer.zoho.com/docs/dcWbbA How can ANYONE say that a partially trapped loop is "more serious" than these "incidents" and take action angainst one and not the other? edit: to fix my non working clicky thingy" I still don't see where I said anything about proof or out of control. Constructive discussion should exclude exaggeration and mis quoting. Witnessing your recall skills/comprehension skills I now understand your refusal to believe anything you do not have first hand knowledge of or that someone else may have seen. " Farther up thread you posted this a proof that Vigil was out of control. http://viewer.zoho.com/docs/dcWbbA I posted this and told you they were written by the same person. http://viewer.zoho.com/docs/c6UCg That person was Karel Goorts, Managing Director of Aviacom SA. Any response?" So are you saying that the link I posted is showing a bogus plane crash due to a Vigil mis fire that never happened and was made up by Karl Goortz? Interesting... "The thread starts out with this. That a little thin to call it conclusive. It seems you are just trying to stir shit up. Do you have anything that is documented?" The rest of the opening post of the latest "suspected?" Vigil "mis-fire" "I was starting my setup for a 270 frontriserturn at around 500 feet... When I was in the frontrisers my Vigil fired and the Reserve came out!!! The Main collapsed and when it opened again the main twisted around the reserve.... That was in around 350 feet!!!somehow it worked out that it came to an Biplane, with my reserve in the back and a twisted Main in the front, which always wanted to make it to an Downplane!!! The unit was shipped in for inspection. No results yet." Are you also trying to imply that the OP of the latest Vigil "mis-fire" thread is Karel Goortz? or was put up to making a bogus claim of a Vigil mis-fire by Karel Goortz? Or that the OP or the person who relayed this information as first hand knowledge is making the whole thing up? Just to try and take some heat off Aviacom? Do you have any first hand knowledge of this? or maybe a link I can click on to see it in writing? ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

and ANOTHER good reason not to mandate use of AAD's, that also underlines the un-level playing field and sketchiness in the AAD market. How many "incidents" are needed before common sense prevails. Argus' problems are starting to pale in comparison to Vigil's. That makes 3 "mis-fires" (quick count) this month alone! Wondering if I should hold my breath waiting for a response/reaction from the PIA, or if Vigil's "auto response" of "unit worked as designed, nothing wrong here" will satisfy everyone AGAIN. Can't wait to read all the responses of people trying to defend them now! http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4121579;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

Not directed at you personally Dave, I just thought this was a good piece of information, something I haven't been aware of until it popped up on another thread "Vigil fire" http://viewer.zoho.com/docs/dcWbbA How can ANYONE say that a partially trapped loop is "more serious" than these "incidents" and take action angainst one and not the other? edit: to fix my non working clicky thingy ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

"AADs are a comprimise between successful operation and being non-invasive. Early AADs, which were unpopular, not widely used, and generally frowned upon had the problem of being too invasive. They fired at odd times, and even when the firing 'seemed' right, the exact circumstances were never very exact, the speeds and altitudes when the AAD would honestly fire were 'loose'. Jumpers didn't like any of it, so they didn't jump them. " They fired at odd times It would appear after doing any kind of research that this is not just an issue with "EARLY AAD's" it is STILL happening, and with ALL brands of AAD's ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

My mistake. Your words from post #1 in this thread led me to believe otherwise. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For what it's worth, this is my choice in gear due to recent events..... Container: Wings, AAD: Argus (they are going CHEEEEAAPP) Reserve: PD or Smart Just above that I stated "I am in the market for new gear" so no, I do not own one as of yet, hopefully by next week, I will be an Argus owner.(tecnicallities I know) however it does matter when you look at context.I only made my decision to go with Argus after reading all I could find on this topic.I have taken the very unpopular stance and instead of running away from Argus and bashing them, I decided to take advantage of the situation and save ALOT of money. I am NOT a disgruntled Argus owner.I think that should be clear if you are trying to read into my mindset (good luck with that btw ) Also in regards to your previous post, "the rigging community is the only one that counts", it is more than pertinent to point out that the consensus of the "rigging community" is far from unanimous. "I'd rather see the toggle whipper and the scared student both have AAD fires and two-outs, than see the toggle whipper get away with it, and the scared student go in under the malfunctioning main alone. See?" Good point! This is the kind of discussion I was hoping to see, valid points from others more knowledgable then myself. "If that's not good enough for you, build your own, or just don't jump one" This illustrates the other main point of my argument. It should be a personal choice to AAD or not to AAD!! But this is not an acceptable decision in many places. Because an AAD does not make you 100% bulletproof,and has a failure rate that can cause death (however small it may be) we should be given the leeway to choose how we roll the dice, we are allowed that leeway when it comes to the dicision to jump or not jump! ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

"call me Cypres Fan if you want, I have my reasons... But I also now believe that some competitors are as good as the Cypres as long as they are operated within their parameters. I just don't like too many parameters of the Vigil, it is personal, and for the moment the Argus seems to be a very good unit, but still need to get a better cutter (still just my opinion)" That is a very good unbiased opinion from a self proclaimed "cypres fan" ! very refreshing Thank you! the key word is "parameters" they need to be addressed and changed. For anyone else who thinks I am a "Cypres basher" not true at all, I have jumped with a Cypres and would again.I have no brand loyalty to any AAD manufacturer.I just want to see fair competiion in our industry, competition is good for everyone! well Airtec may not see it that way. In the end ALL incidents and mis-fires have the possibilty for a fatal outcome, trying to say that this failure mode is more serious than that failure mode is not logical nor does it help solve the problem at hand. ALL AAD'S have some sort of failure mode don't let politics/loyalties cloud your vision/judgement, treat all manufacturers equally!! ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

"I haven't read this entire thread because it seems like another round of the same-old same-old, an Agrus jumper wants to start pointing fingers at other AAD manufacturers." Nope not the same-old, same-old, you see not ALL is as it seems to you.I do not own an Argus or any other brand of AAD "I've got news for, the 'rigging community' is the only one that counts" I think the general skydiving community would strongly disagree with that egotistical statement. "That's a simple case of an AAD working as designed, and the user making a mistake. In the case of a student, the 'user' is the instructor who put too big of a student on too small of a canopy for a student cypres, and then did not properly train them with regards to hard turns below 1000ft." "Working as designed"? then there is a fundamental flaw in their design and that should be changed. "too big of a student on too small of a Canopy"? where did you learn such information.This is NOT the case, and shows the same "I know it all" attitude that "the rigging community is the only one that counts" but then again you probably ARE a rigger and likely know better about an "incident" I witnessed first hand than I do myself.You're rigging certificate comes with a crystal ball? The student in this incident weighed less than 180 lbs, let;s give him 20 extra pounds out the door which would make his w/l 0.83, is that too high a w/l for PD Navigator? "In either case, the error is with the user, not the AAD." Wrong again! The error is in the design/programming.AAD's were designed for use in skydiving equipment, NOT the other way around!!! When Cypres and Vigil test units that fired when not wanted and say "the unit worked as designed, no problem here".....It's bullshit, if they work as designed and people are still having "incidents" CHANGE THE FUCKING DESIGN!!!! as it is not condusive to the reality of the skydiving environment we all live in. ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough

"Hmm. Have you seen an incident where a Cypres or Vigil cutter fired, but failed to cut the loop and trapped part of it? " No I haven't, however I have heard of a Cypres firing while a jumper was performing a HP turn, the jumper died. Is this "as serious" as the "incident" you are referring to with thed partially trapped loop? No product banning after that one. I have also heard of Vigil(s) firing in the door of an aircraft, thus causing the "possibilty" of the reserve going over the tail and taking out the whole lead of jumpers.Is THAT "as serious" ? Again no product was banned after that incident. ORGASMO RODRIGUEZ If your gunna be dumb You better be tough