vanpilot

Your conclusion of safety did have a consequence. A 7 year revokation. I contested that both with the USPA and on this thread to bring attention to the gossipers out there the truth in the matter. How does backing a friend make me feel hard done by. Who did I blame? I confronted Jan on this thread for her actions here as board member, she responed by showing a course of appeal to take. That is what is happening by those that support the appeal against the revokation. If you don't give a two shits about DZ.com why the post? As for strenghening the resolve against JAcko on this thread i didn't know DZ.com had that kind of influence....powerful media it must be.

You are right the arguement would be pointless because you do not know the difference between harness fitted right ......and laterals loose, which by the way nothing to do with the harness being fitted on a person. What else you got??

It was mr jackson in the library with the candlestick holder....This isn't Cludo....You are right about one thing in your statement. I'll give you a clue...."this kind of tandem flying was business as usual."

Try not too jump to too many conclusions. No he did not give me a letter. He read it to me as would a friend to friend. I jumped on this thread on my own free will. You are PA removed by slotperfect if you think I am his agent. I am his friend and I defend his case of revokation. Hopefully you have friends who may do the same for you one day. His reasons for leaving Xkeys had nothing to do with skydiving., irrelevant comparison you say. Try not to pool two instructors in the same category. One who has a clean safety record and the other who did not put a harness on correctly. The point on that is one is getting his rating back Quote"because he felt upset about it"and another is having everything revoked because he is Quote "such a skygod" as you say. Lets make your statement SOP for the USPA "when tempers cool you can get your rating back." We'll all claim social security before that happens. Stay on point my arguement was the issuance of dicipline Period.

Sorry to dissappoint lana, i know why jacko left xkeys. Had nothing to do with skydiving on the contrary. Whatever happened to having a friends back? The story jackos friends are not being told is on the last 11pages an 16440 hits. They just are not speaking out for fear of the same reprisal.

Unless Jan Meyer has no objection or can provide some better information on how to contact the executive committee to overule this dicipline write to this address and ASK that it be Cc to all Executive Members. [email protected]

Balls, here is the quote directly from the letter. Shall I put it in caps.... As far as the wording from USPA.....The letter was from Glenn Bangs President USPA and Cc: Chris Needles,USPA Executive Director Gary Peek Central Regional Director QUOTE "your USPA membership has been revoked for a period of seven years by the executive committee." QUOTE "Please return your membership card and rating documents to the associations main office in the enclosed self addressed and stamped envelope I did not "quote" because I use discretion on an open forum have you? You are right the RD did not contact the FAA but that is about, it they are still invovled. One minute you disagree with the decision made by the committee then the other minute it seems you do. Read it here for all to see. Question is what will be done about it or will you and others just let what happened happen. I will not.

Jan, Then why was a letter issued and signed by the board dir. stating just that? The caps was my idea i thought it would look cool...not really it emphasizes the contents of the letter which are not a quote to add but read from the horses mouth. Try not to dilute this arguement between you and me. The letter reads what the letter reads as stated. You may not have a copy from USPA but iu am sure you will get one if you request. The letters may not go far but the attention will jast as yours did. And FYI the FAA are involved

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander dearie! I am not a board member that is the difference. I am standing up for the rights if a TI who was incorrectly diciplined. Who knows your rating may be next who will stand up for you if not your friends.

It would help more if individuals stood up and raised their voices. Email Jan [email protected]

First off I am not Jacko. 2nd I worked in the sport for 13 years so I think I have an Idea of what working with students is about. Do you even have an idea about what this thread addresses. Here is an example of fair justice, another TI is in the process of getting his rating back after a student dropped from his harness. Maybe he should go freefly and get a sponsorship like you say!! The FAA allow the USPA to police themselves under.......DUH FAR part 105. Guess where that comes from. I'll give you a hint it starts with F--.

Tune in pal, this discussion is about a TI'S action and the judgement laid down by USPA. The policing by the DZ and its members produced this thread. Let me fill you in on the highlights so you have the facts. A complainant saw a video and reported it to a Regional Director. The RD contacted the TI and requested ceasation of the activity, included was a letter describing a " slap on hand with consequence, The TI complied. The complainant appealled the "punishment as not sevear enough," and requested USPA to reopen and re-dicipline. Here are the contents of a letter drafted to Mr Jackson by the USPA....... "EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY YOU SHALL RETURN THE USPA ISSUED TANDEM RATING, AFF INSTRUCTOR RATING AND ARE HEREBY SUSPENDED FROM MEMEBERSHIP TO THE ASSOCIATION FOR NO LESS THAN 7 YEARS," Do you think that is sevear enough a punishment. Wake up pal, this is not only about a TI's action on video but of a gross improper use of dicipline on a compliant TI. For all of you out there that do not agree with this verdict write Jan Myers [email protected] or the USPA Executive Committee Board of Directors to overturn this decision. My letter is in. For your information the FAA collaborates with a group known as the National Transport and Safety Board, who collects and processes evidence of accidents and incidents. They are not impartial, biased or swayed by DZ GOssip. The findings are kept CONFIDENTIAL and based purely on FACT as is their conclusion. I hope for the sports sake YOU are not a jury member.

Re-evalute everyone then on a regular basis. In our world of aviation, a pilot must undergo a bi-annual review(psst. that means every two years). As a pilot commercial carrying passengers FAR part 135 for hire a pilot must undergo recurrent training every year. What separates a tandem instructor from this. He has to have a medical current, right?(3 years) same as a private pilot not a commercial pilot(every 12months). Recurrent training and re-evaluation is key to maintaining a rating. All the parties where invited by the DZ, paid vacation non came out. The FAA are already involved thanks to RD. Ideas and suggestions come from interactive well educated, involved individuals in the sport not open days to look for problems. This thread has spun so far out of control I do not believe this is the last of it.

I am not at liberty to say what ratings were yanked, out of respect to Jacko and the final decision of the USPA. I know personally the contents of the letter issued by USPA, and responded to them with my own as did other instructors who did not agree with the verdict. What I can comment on when I spoke with JAcko is he felt he had been unfairly victimized, he agreed to stop based on the request of a RD letter. If he did not think it was wrong I do not think in my profession and personal opinion of Jacko that he would have stopped, case closed. His attitude was positive to all parties involved resulting in compliance.

His attitude was of compliance, he stopped. USPA still issued"yanked rating and more". I agree with you that his attitude would greatly affect a decision. He stopped is that not indicative of his attitide. His personality as long as I have known him has never been egocentric. His reaction should be testamnet to his attitude. He stopped. PERIOD. USPA still issued a punishment as if he was the one who dropped a student. During this whole thread I backed JAcko as a competant instructor. I did not agree nor condone at anytime with what was done. What I contested was the manner dicipline was issued. References made to him were charcter fiber for those who wished to hang him like jlmiricle. JAcko's attitude as an instructor and a pilot do not warrent the punishment he was issued. That is the point of this dicussion.

Ron one minute you like him then you don't? Ask JAn what the USPA ruled on diciplining him. definately not one ticket one offence? I never backed his judgment I deplored of the system used to convict a skilled intsructor, even you agreed if he stopped that was cool. One instructor is in the process of getting his rating back then what? As long as he falls face to earth he should be ok right. What kind of recurrent training would you give him? The courses, instructors seminars may as well be pay your bucks refresh your ticket because that is all it acheives there is no standard maintained from 1. examiner to examiner or dropzone to dropzone. The emphasis I placed is for a country wide standard MAINTAINED by USPA. that way everyone is held to a common standard. What is done one way on the east coast I'll bet is not done the same way on the west coast it is a variation. My "requirements" would not have prevented anything Ron, they are intended for education. You, if you are a TI, should be embracing standardization.

One instructor is in the process of getting his rating back after a fatality. Did you know that? The drivers' license is an example to parallel. I.E. one infraction and you are out according to your law. As for you going outside of manufacturers spec ever tried sitflying kneeflying head down or any of that funky stuff when the gear was not speed rated or TSO'd for it. How would this sport progress into the 21st century? If you missed the cases of examples I.E. driving or a suggestion of recurrent training you missed the point it is also a suggestion of direction for training, your suggestions are limited to Hang him!! You areentitled to your opinion. AS for diciplining all parties involved well does that include the previous dropzones and tandem examiners or those else out there that have and are still doing this. Hope you aren't on the jury we'll all hang.

Well a lot of what was said and what happened seems contradictory. First you stated that a complainant drew attention to USPA about the manuever. Then a letter was issued to Jacko stating don't do it again, a slap on the hand...am I right so far I dont want there to be confusion. All that time this thread was active right?? After he received the "letter" he stopped but the complainant wanted a harsher judgment. Am I still on the right track so this thread produced the necessary support from jumpers and 1 known of board member to take furthur action based on this thread. Am I correct so far. Resulting in the Interim Motion passed by the EC which you do not agree with.....???So by clarifying that process a complaint resulted in an action, an action resulted in a letter, the judgment was not harsh enough( where is it stated in the GM what is defined as harsh enough). This thread continued, so this thread resulted in a harsher punishment through the timeline of July to August. How am I doing so far? How is it that one channel that was bypassed has worked in his favor the result stayed the same, then got worse? Just so we are all on the same page.

Sounds like a personal vendetta not an objective opinion, what do you think of instructors getting their ratings back after student fall out of harnesses. Do you think you should loose your drivers license if you jump a red light. How about this, if you pack, jump or otherwise use your skydiving gear for any other purpose other what it was designed and tested for ,you cannot fun jump according to manufacturers spec. Wait, wait I got another one. You open lower than the recommended altitude, USPA yanks your membership. Those all fall into the same category of safety. The problem is not his action but the dicipline system. Re-evalute everyone then on a regular basis. In our world of aviation, a pilot must undergo a bi-annual review(psst. that means every two years). As a pilot commercial carrying passengers FAR part 135 for hire a pilot must undergo recurrent training every year. What separates a tandem instructor from this. He has to have a medical current, right?(3 years) same as a private pilot not a commercial pilot(every 12months). Recurrent training and re-evaluation is key to maintaining a rating. FlightSafety whom under most Airline and Corporate pilots train use this"The best safety device is a well trained pilot" or.........fill in the blank. Can you imagine the revenue Evaluators and course directors will generate!!!! USe the experiance of the TI's out there that offer that expertise rather than condemn them to revoked ratings. Please don't misconstrue this as a teaching ground for aerial stunts. Just regulate (1) THOSE GETTING RATINGS, AND (2) MAINTENANCE OF RATINGS. If USPA yanks the rating from him then IT needs to re-evaluate its standard and apply that standard to all.

Funny thing is videos and photos can be attatched long after they were taken...modern technology the thing we can do nowadays.

Again stay focused on the issue and that is the method used to lay judgment. He was asked to stop he did. This thread resulted in further action at who's cost? The definition was used to show what "safe" is. I did not say at anytime what was shown was safe or even standard practice what was defined is the condition. Hook turning is inherently more dangerous shall we ban those too...they can be safely done though. Again I am not saying the video was safe I commenting on the history of the person. I am full aware of the possible outcomes of tandem skydives, which are far from "normal" to begin with. The certification process and ability of instructors out there is the result of incidents. Yes if things went wrong there would be an outcry. The point was he stopped before this thread. This thread induced furthur action on a compliant jumper. Edit to add for you... all dropzones display extreme shots its called advertising. I'll be willing to bet if you look at every dropzone you will see shots of non standard practice. I call out lowtime jumpers who do not have the facts or the knowledge not dissmissal of their opinion. Would you like to be regulated by a group that does not know anything about your activity? and for your second edit....read the words I said skydiving is inherently dangerous, i.e .it has the potential for disaster, based on the conditions and actions of the jumper.

Ron the point I made was with reference to Jacko as a character for those who do not know him yet wish to hang him. My reference to 500 jump wonders implies those who comment strongly, do not have the facts or embellish on comments by others who do not know. You comment you like Jacko, he did stop, what is the issue then. This thread has seen to it that self-policing by the jumpers has now involved the governing body. That is the point.

I know exactly the result the USPA issued, do you? Again let me draw your attention to the way this was handled. He was asked to stop he complied. This thread started, investigations and allegations by the masses, directed by yourself, began. Read the threads on pages 2.3.4,6 and let me know what you think, objectively. The point is there are proper channels to applying dicipline in the community. If you are looking for a scapegoat to the recent tandem fatalities you are barking up the wrong tree and if that is the case then the USPA needs to re-evaluate the Tandem program and its certification. I am not saying what was shown should be acceptable, what I am commenting on is the direction and mediation used to accuse after said individual acknowledged and stopped doing maneuvers. THAT is the point. To say that I am complaining that people read this post is simply ignorant everyone has freedom to speech and information.

Sure is with 18000 hits on the thread that it needed to be split. As a National Director maybe you can shed some light on us "little people"what dicipline has been issued?

jlmiracle, Do you really believe that, how do you think the thread started and the USPA got involved,next you'll say BOD's don't read emails from RD's who don't read email's from the skydiving population. It is the internet!...do you use it to gossip and slander those you would not say the same to their face. I guess using anonominity lets you say anything you want without repercussion or consequence...right. Not only have I seen the videos I have seen many instructors all over the country do and try the same thing without the control exercised by Jacko. I have also seen instructors do far worse like improper harness fitting resulting in death. What is your comment on that? I know what USPA's stand is. They will back the manufacturer no-one else who will back you when you are in a pickle. Yes she is a NATIONAL director, who did not start the thread however is certainly not acting professionally by drumming support by jumpers on an internet forum. That is the whole point, there are SOP's for discipline they are not just made up as they go along.