HPC

Thanks for replying, and for supporting Racer owners.

You have the most valid reason for not packing Racers. Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated.

Wouldn't that be the fault of the Javelin reserve bag's coating and not the reserve itself? IOW, had that reserve been say a PDR, could it be assumed that the PDR would have failed the test due to the urethane transfer?
Just wondering.

This post is directed to current and former riggers. A "yes" or "no" answer, along with a reason would be much appreciated. Please read carefully and try to stay on subject.

Would you repack a reserve in a Racer rig? For the sake of argument (and to avoid re-addressing an old thread) please assume no dual RSL; either no RSL at all or single-sided set up per manufacturer's instructions. Also assume the rig is in excellent condition, and no more than a few years old. Finally, please assume the reserve is a currently-made PDR.

The reason I ask is because not too long ago someone in the NW was trying to sell a Racer. He was very honest and said that the reason was because he couldn't find a rigger in the NW that would repack his reserve.

We all know that the Racer is the only currently-manufactured rig in the US that uses a fully external reserve pilot chute. To the best of my knowledge, it's also the only one with a 2-pin reserve.

Please keep replies in line with the question at hand. No comments regarding the Racer's looks or differences with other rigs unless it has to do with the reserve container. Also, please no comments on cost-of-ownership due to 2-pin reserve as it relates to AADs.

Those of you who've been in the sport for any length of time know that jumpers seem to either love or hate this particular rig, for various reasons including the reserve system, rig's appearance, etc.

Thanks.

Thanks for your reply and explanation. I agree with you in that every reserve is different with regards to age and wear, and each reserve needs to be treated individually. Your judgment is based on condition, which has been what I've been talking about all along.

Thank you for this information. I figured as much, as I explain in my post of Nov. 10 at 10:50AM.

Yes, after an Act of Congress I'm finally starting to get the ever-elusive "yes" or "no".
Thanks for your reply.
Now, maybe you could use some of your rigger influences and get some of the others to come on board??

Many of these replies remind me of the exchange between Mr. Gambini and the judge in My Cousin Vinny. "Guilty or not guilty? If I do not hear either guilty or not guilty, I will hold you in contempt of court."
And how did Mr. Gambini respond?
Yes, Jerry, I feel like the judge.

This is what PD told me.
Now, before I unlock the cage and let the Cornish pixies loose, I'm sure PD is speaking from a practical standpoint. Would I jump a nylon reserve that was 1,000 years old? NO. Would I jump one 30 years old that had been fully checked and inspected and given a thumbs up by a QUALITY-MINDED and REPUTABLE manufacturer such as PD? Yes. At some point, nylon will degrade because NOTHING lasts forever. However, the point at which the nylon will degrade to a point where even a conservative-minded company won't certify it is probably long past the jumper's lifespan, or the lifespan of his skydiving career.
I learned to jump on T-10s, 28' cheapos, followed by a shortlined 27' Russian. I then made my first square jump on a Unit, then (much to the consternation of the DZO) purchased what was then the hottest canopy - a Django Bandit. This was in 1983. And no, I never injured myself during that time.
I have no idea how old those T-10s were but they were what all drop zones were putting their students out on at the time. How old do you think that nylon was? Granted, those are mains but I'd be willing to bet that the nylon packed in the belly warts weren't spring chickens either.

Why have you jumped into your time machine, gone back millions of years and returned with some dinosaurs? My OP had NOTHING to do with rounds. I clarified my question with a comparison between two reserves that are IDENTICAL except for age, and asked a simple close-ended question (that means a simple yes or no answer, followed by an explanation which my OP also asked to provide) to which very few responders have provided (thank you, Mr. Baumchen!).
Am I speaking Swahili here??

You're not answering the original post. When PD inspects a reserve, they know how many times it's been repacked and deployed - a slash "/" means repacked, an "x" means deployed. I'm talking about a reserve that has only one single difference from a new one -age. No design changes, a reserve that's still in production, etc.
Read my reply in which I compare two reserves in which the ONLY difference is age, and answer that question. I thought I made it a simple comparison with a simple question to get to the point.

But based primarily on condition, and not age, right?

I'm not sure I understand your logic. You're speaking from the performance standpoint of the reserve, while I'm talking about the safety and functionality of it from a deployment standpoint. It doesn't matter how big the difference is in performance between the main and reserve. The reserve is designed to be forgiving, and to be easy to fly, land where you want to and be easy to flare. An F-15 pilot doesn't have a problem flying and landing a Cessna, no more than an Indy 500 driver has a problem driving his SUV. The purpose of my question was not to judge an old reserve's performance or obsolescence, but to judge its safety as a reserve parachute intended only to save a jumper's life. Now, if you're talking obsolescence as far as technology is concerned, then I can see your point. But if a PDR of 24 years ago is built, deploys, flies, and flares the same as a PDR just off the production line then the only difference we're looking at here is age and condition. These two things don't necessarily correlate directly to each other either. You can can have a reserve that's just a few years old but has several deployments, was repacked by a rigger and in an environment that quickly affected its condition in a negative way. You can also have a 24-year old reserve that has zero deployments, and was kept in its container for 24 years except for the times it was out being repacked. Condition is the result of use, care, and how it was stored a lot more than age. Nylon does not degrade from age alone.
For example, what's the difference between a PDR that was bought 24 years ago, never used, never packed, and is still in its original plastic bag compared to a PDR just off the line? Let's assume for argument's sake that no changes were made to the design of the reserve itself. No rigger would refuse to pack the one just manufactured, but how many would refuse to pack the 24-year old one? And what would be the difference other than age?
Just curious as to thought patterns...

councilman24

At some point an early Raven, PD, or Glide Path will become an issue as we get farther from the introduction date.

Would you pack a 24-year old reserve that had just been inspected by PD, passed permeability, clamp (strength) tests, a 40-item checklist and was re-certified by them?

Yes - PD re-certifies reserves over twenty. Their only criteria is condition.

This post is for riggers only.
Do you have a reserve age limit after which you won't repack the reserve, even if it's in excellent condition and inspected and re-certified by the manufacturer? If so, what's your reasoning?
Thanks.

Hi Eric,
Looks like others have answered your questions, but I have one for you. Who were your parents? I ask because I jumped at Hinckley from 1981-1985, and knew the Barons as well. I had many a lunch at the Dairy Joy, and one of the popular end-of-the-jump-day places to go for a chicken basket was a place called "The Other Place". Have you heard of it?
I recently found two pics that I will scan and post of the Twin Beech used during my time there - N94H. It had the less common three-bladed Hartzell props.
Mike