JWest

Of course the these people know more than me. I don't deny that. This argument Is pointless now. No where in the SIM does it say 200 jumps! 200 jumps is a misnomer. I could ask 5k+ jumpers a question and they would mostly agree with me. If they did not they would be stuck in there ways. For the sake of argument lets pretend that the recommendation is 200 jumps. Which has previously been established is incorrect. Here is the question: Since the recommendation to jump a camera is 200 jumps would you rather have uneducated jumpers with less than 200 jumps using a camera or would you rather have educated jumpers with less then 200 jumps using a camera?

I wanted to discuss the validility of the 200 recommendation. I quickly realized that was pointless. Even if I have excellent points and a logical flow I will be shot down by people stuck in their ways. Jumpers are going to jump before 200. I'm trying to make is so they can do it more safe. If you can't prevent it they you should at least help it be done safely.

How can you say it's not a learning tool? if someone is wearing a camera and they record you, you can look at that to help learn. AFF programs do it all the time. So does the tunnel. My decision has actually changed I'll probably wait longer than I would have before this thread existed. So most important part of this thread. There is no 200 jump recommendation in the SIM! The recommendation is a C licenses. That encompasses so much more than just 200 jumps.

I replied to both of you in one. I have no problem talking about death. Doing it without effecting someone's emotions is the hard part. Anyway I'm about to abandon this thread because it has degraded to the point of helping no one.

I don't want to go down this path but if you had a camera on your helmet from day one. It would be more safe than putting it on at jump 50 for example. As a distraction, not as a snag hazard. Along with the fact that id rather have five seconds and 1000 feet before I would want fraction of a second it takes to tumble to your death on skis or a snowmobile.

Someone left without a rig.... that's unbelievable. This is an excellent point. Also why I will not jump a camera until I am comfortable with my new sized canopy, audible, and full face. Or anything else I decide in-between now and then such as a digital alti.

I'm bouncing back and forth and probably not being clear enough. When I say directly related to the camera I mean a physical problem. ie. entanglement. The rest of the time I'm referring to the distraction the camera causes. I'm focusing on this because it appears that the distraction is the primary cause. Blows my mind that people can forget the chest strap. That can and will kill you if left undone. I could even go into the psychology that if the camera was there from day one it wouldn't be a distraction it would be the norm. But that's a long topic I have no interest in getting into because it is way off topic.

Good post. I already own multiple gopros due to the various other extreme sports I partake in. In general that would be great advice. Especially with the Hero 4 costing close to $500. You second paragraph is the exact attitude I want newer jumpers to be aware in unsafe. Last, I try every time I jump to get a little less terrible.

Context of your post is important. The recommendation is what drives the attitude so they directly correlate. Stating one and not the other still insinuates that both apply. I don't do well with commenting on death. It sucks you lost a friend and the community lost a member. Your example is important but it is in the minority of camera related incidences. -This being based on the incident reports on this website.- This arises the question was the camera a cause of the initial cut away? Did the helmet cut away malfunction? You provided the perfect example that even an experienced camera flyer can have issues. That being said it was the camera-possibly helmet cut away- that caused his death. If he could not cut away the helmet then the chances a newer jumper could is also highly unlikely. The difference is with the experienced guy the camera was blamed. With the inexperienced guy the jump number would be blamed as well. When in the end the jump number wouldn't of mattered. I apologies if I have offended you in anyway. Again I'm not the best at talking around death.

That is a great suggestion. Unfortunately since I am inexperienced and do not jump a camera I would not be able to create such a progression. However once I get a solid number of camera jumps That is something I will be able to do. Just off of the top of my head things like: 1. Demonstrate proper emergency procedures to remove helmet/camera with tension on camera. (Can be simulated by tying a string to the camera mount and pulling in various manners.) Then demonstrate cutaway procedures if the helmet/camera is preventing proper deployment of main. This can be simulated the same way it is in AFF with an instructor describing the malfunction above your head. 2. Have a ground school. An hour or so of instruction time, with someone going over the risks and proper procedures/etiquette of jumping with a camera. At the end you could go over the emergency procedures as described above. If you are successful have it signed off in your logbook that you have completed POV camera ground school. I am a USPA member and it is not the 200 jump recommendation that I'm concerned about. I don't like the attitude that no matter what happens if a jumper is below the recommendation and has an incident it's automatically related to the camera.

Hitting trees in the number one cause of death in downhill skiing. Closely followed by suffocating in a tree well and coalitions with people. I am not saying it won't happen to me. It it completely possible that it will. If you are responsible you can lower the risk of it happening. Same as we do by conducting gear checks. We are mitigating risk. But we can never make it go away. What I hoped to accomplish with this post is to change the mentality that simply saying wait till 200 is not the best way to do it. Setting guidelines or a progression is a much better option. After reading some of these posts I will probably wait longer than what I originally planned. I'll wait till I'm comfortable with the canopy I recently downsized to, till I'm comfortable with my new full face helmet, till I'm comfortable with my new audible. That could take 10 jumps it could take 100 jumps. Everyone learns at a different pace. When I feel comfortable to wear a camera I'll ask if the DZO and people I jump regularly if they are comfortable with it. If they are, I'm going to wear it. If they are not it will stay in the ground. I prefer to see myself on camera because it is the best learning tool. Only downside is that low jump number people generally jump with other low jump number people who cant wear cameras.

There are actually a few productive comments in this thread. From which raised a couple questions. 1. How can someone deny that strapping a camera to their helmet is not a distraction? When it clearly is. 2. 200 is just a number, wouldn't it be better if there was a class and your first jump had to be with a couch? They could then sign you off. A few statements. 1. Skydiving is not the most accident prone sport some people do. But you do not hear the arguments against cameras in those sports. 2. I have had 100s of hours of POV camera footage. Turning it on and forgetting it isn't something you consciously do. You can die if you lose focus. Experienced camera wearers know this. Im not just talking about skydiving. 3. I really did want to wear just the camera housing to say "fuck the system" but thats childish and adding risk with no benefit. 4. It doesn't matter what I say or how much logic I use. I'm a kindergartner compared to most of you and don't know anything in your opinion.

Of course I am not the first person to think this, and I won't be the first person to do it safely either. There are people with over 200 jumps who thought "they had the right stuff" and it turned out they didn't. I cannot disagree with anything you said in your second paragraph. You are completely correct. On the walk to the plane you should be checking your gear and going over the dive in your head. During jump run you should be checking your handles, straps, and give your fellow jumpers a glance over. Under canopy you should be checking your airspace and entering the landing pattern correctly. These are things every jumper should do. My point is we can remedy all of your situation by simply being responsible. Make sure your camera is charged the night before. Make sure your memory card has space on it the night before. When you are in the plane turn your camera on 500-1000 feet before exit altitude. So what you might have to edit out a few "boring" minutes of footage. You still have plenty of time to preform gear checks. Don't turn of your camera off until you are on the ground. Again you might have to edit a couple more minutes or "boring" footage but you are not disrupting procedures you need to do to be safe. The camera is a distraction but the risks of it can be minimized by being responsible. People should be emphasizing this more than anything else. Final discretion should be left up the the DZO/DZSO.

I posted this on another site. Wanted to share it here as well. 'There are a couple people who have less than 200 jumps who wear POV cameras at my DZ. That being said as someone with less than the 200 jumps I want people to know what I personally think. I have read the POV incident report on DZ and it is obvious that the real issue is becoming distracted, not the camera becoming tangled. While incidents do occur where things get entangled with the camera it happens far less often. When it does happen it tends to be due to an unstable opening. That is just what I gathered from reading the Incident reports. Now I do think the 200 jump guideline is a good thing. It gives a general number and also sets goals for some people. Newer jumpers -myself include- have a higher risk of having an unstable opening. Thus more likely for it to snag something. The camera or helmet should have a cut away. I think we can agree on that regardless of jump number. We have to remember though that it is just a guideline. There are people with fewer than 200 jumps who are mentally capable to handle a camera and there are people with more than 200 jumps who are not capable. This decision should be left up to the DZO,or DZ safety person. If they think the jumper is ready to jump with a camera then let them. If they don't think they are ready then don't let them. The mentality I see towards jumpers with less than 200 jumps using a camera is part of the problem. Educate new jumpers on how the camera can distract them from more important things such as altitude and landings and that "getting the shot" can get them hurt or killed. Don't just say it's unsafe. I will probably wear a camera before 200 jumps and I will do it safely. I will do it by recognizing that the camera is a distraction and by focusing on the dive. I am not a camera flyer. My job is not to get the shot. The camera is just there to record what ever it records. If it doesn't record anything than who gives a shit. You had a successful skydive. If the camera gets snagged I'll pull my helmet cutaway and execute the emergency I practiced on the ground. Edit: I typed this on mobile so I'm sure the spelling is jacked."

It has to do with ... just watch this. http://youtu.be/kIf9h2Gkm_U?t=1m26s

I skimmed through this but didn't see the correct answer anywhere. I was in the military. Drones are something that can fly themselves. aka basically autopilot. Remote control helicopters are not drones. They are remote control.

It only looks like a length of line connects the Reserve bridal to the RSL lanyard. It almost looks like it's just tied on there.