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The head rigger of United Parachute Technologies AKA Relative workshop puts his name behind it so that has to be a positive for the Vigil. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

Been using mine all year and it never felt right. wireless mouse, did nto move how i wanted it to. Just turned the mouse pad over to the otherside and it works better than i could ever have imagined. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

They are given away at boogies and more or less promos. I just so happen to have a couple. send me an email and i will reply with one atattched for you in a pdf file that you can use. [email protected] .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

You can go as small as a 150 in a container built for a 190. By the time your skills are to the point that you can safely fly/land a 135 you'll be ready for a new container and probably a new and smaller reserve as well. Have your container built for what you intend to put in it now. Unless of course you think you'll enjoy struggling to pack 190 sq ft of slippery snot into a bag built to fit 170 sq ft of slippery snot... amen to that. Get it so it is built for the 190. not the other way around. Either that or if you plan on doing alot of jumps over the 6-8 weeks that it is being made and you figure you will be getting ready to downsize then get it made for a 170 and buy everything 170... while it is being made do 100 jumps over those 8 weeks on the 190 hire kit or demo kit and get yourself ready for your new 170. My wings was for a 150 and i ended up having a 129 fitting very nice in it. It would not have been a good idea to be putting another size down in it nor up. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

ok. you guys are all right. There is nothing wrong with it and i am out of line suggesting that there is something wrong with it. I was just trying to look out for the people who are paying $450 dollars for these just to later find out they would have saved money buying from a distributor as my maths in the first post showed. Fair enough though, I know i will not win this thread with anyone agreeing. It was nice having someone with 46 jumps thank me as she nearly bought 2 for $450 each. She saw my thread and then realised she should look around with her friend more. That was a good feeling that i had helped someone new to the sport. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

I get your point and actually came back to this thread to delete it as i have been thinking alot about this and think that maybe i just for some reason feel to strong about this issue and am over-reacting. saying that though, in response to your question, You dont see who are selling gear that is worth $1000 for $2000 writing in their advert that the gear is worth such and such an amount of money. So it is not misleading in the sense of telling unrealistic figures. They just tell people what the gear is and what the price they want. In regards to these certificates, the micron one is saying that it is worth $1100 and they will sell it for $800. with the wings one thy are saying it is worth $750 and they will sell it for $450. You see, they are telling people an exact figure of what the cert is worth. What they are not saying is that is the 'reccomended retail price' and not the 'market price' of what the true value of it is. This is think is very misleading. If you were a person who has just spent such and such amount on money learning to sydive and now are looking for gear and you see an advert telling you how much the certificate is worth and you can get such and such amount off then you would be keen as you dont know that this person is actually telling you that the price they are talking about is a price that nobody sells it that high for. If they just said, cert for sale for such amount of money and left it at that then the person looking at buying it would have to find out how much it is worth. they would then find out the true market price. Though newbies get this whole family feeling when it comes to joining the community and they have it in their heads that we dont bullshit each other... so when it says that the cert is worth a price they will not usually look twice at that. I am not trying to cause an argument here and am not trying to ruing anything for anyone, but i think it is unfair that these people selling them are telling people they are 'worth' a certain amount when they are not worth that amount at all. Personally, i sell gear, I sell it for the lowest price my manufacturers will let me sell it for and you will see this in my guest book at my website. I do this because i personally like to try and help people not have to spend so much money, it was not so much the US as you guys get good prices on gear, I started doing this so people in the uk did not have to pay DOUBLE the price people in the states pay. I try to bring US prices to the UK, so far I have done pretty good at this and have also become one of the top three distributors in volume for a major manufacturer across the globe.... However, at the same time, when some one says they cant afford to purchase brand new gear, I give them one for these certificates so they can go and afford it so they too can have the luxury of custom made kit. I dont sell them, i just want to see people really happy about their gear and help them save money. That is me personally, i am telling you that so you can see where I am coming from. Now with thee certs that people get and sell them for $400+, they are not worth that at all.... Let me tell you why... This may not be so publicised but if you are holding an event or run a school or doing a boogie or hosting a party, then write to the manufacturers and ask if they would donate a certificate or two and they will...... If you are a 4-way team or any skydiving team and will go for the same design then wings will also give you all 50% off (same as the certs), if you are in the military they will give you the same discount. These certs are not worth $750 usd each.. if they were it would mean i have given away $15,000usd for nothing and $7500 of that would have been in the last week alone. This is why i am disapointed in the misleading value that sellers of these certs say they are worth. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

Because wings are the ones i did the maths for. they are also the ones i see always for sale. I dont like students who are new to the sport be told that they are saving a fortune where in fact they are not. Maybe i am just sticking up for the people that dont know any better. If you win a certificate that is awesome, if you try to sell it for more than it is worth in the skydiving gear market then that is greedy and not very brotherly. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

i just wish someone could do something about stopping this from happenning. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

I think these should be banned from selling on dropzone.com classifieds. I give them away for free as so do many other people. The prolbem is that people in the classifieds say they are worth $750 usd. The then all try and sell them for $450 usd. Dropzone.com is a place where people come and trust to learn things about the skydiving word. People who sell them for this price are misleading students or whoever buys them. They are ripping visitors to your site off. What bothers me is that i believe one that i gave away has been passed on and is now for sale on your classifieds for $450 usd. This certificate will have my business name on it and it disgust me if someone buys this for 4450 usd and gets ripped off while it has my damn business name on it. I think you should ban these from being for sale on your website as other sydiving forums have banned them to be listed in their forums. Here is the maths. if you read this you will understand that it is a problem and people use your website to rip other jumpers off.... Now a Articulated wings is $1650 USD as the MSRP plus options. So 50% of this $825USD. So you can buy a wings container for $850USD plus full price options. ..but you have to pay this person $400USD to buy the certificate off them. So the total is $1250USD for an articulated wings container plus options at full price. Now look at square 1 prices and many other distributors price, even if the rice is not advertised from distributors they will usually match square 1's price.. I know i would as you have to to survive. Their price for an articulate wings container is $1185USD plus options on top of that. So someone trying to get $400 usd off a 50% wings gift certificate.... if you were to buy such a certificate of someone for this price of $400 you are not getting 50% off a wings certificate at all, you are actually paying $65 USD more than you would be paying for it without a gift gertificate. The you are also missing out on savin the money you can from options when buying from a distributor. It is not fair that people who do not know better should be fooled into believing they are getting a deal when in fact they are not. Now this problem has been bought to the attention of the website i think something should be done about it as turning a blind eye to this sort of thing is you guys giving your support to people being taken advantage of in the classifieds. At least put a warning up for these certificates in the classifieds of the true value. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

i cant believe that someone is trying to sell it again for a price of $450 usd. The thing that guts me more is that it sounds like one i gave away considering it is valid until june and is in the uk. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

if you say so. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

nevermind, am onto a good thing here. It keeps approving my transaction but my bank is not letting it out of the account because it has expired. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

damn, i just used all my money in the account and with it being the 1st of november my bank card has expired.. anyone got a loan? .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

Sweetheart, it is 2007, that is all standard these days. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

Yeah, i would say so. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

what guys from Taupo? Great lakes, Taupo tandem skydive or the other dropzone on the airport? How do you know this by the way? .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

Thats excellent i am glad it helped someone. There is a micron one for sale for $800 !!! on the site now. That is just ridiculous. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

does anyone know where or how i can upgrade my jasjam to the windows mobile 6 an if it is any good? .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

I knew you were Gay!!! well you pull off a good gay going by that picture you justinsulted Peter, cause it dontr look like me at all all you needed was some purple added to the yellow. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

nope, spent many hours fixing it today. it is perfect now. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

Not telling. It is crystal clear thought and all levels are perfect according to pool shop. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

my swimming pool is now as clear as it ever could be .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

I knew you were Gay!!! well you pull off a good gay going by that picture .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

just what California needs. Have you got a fast car to keep up with those ambulances? Just kidding... Congratulations. I wanted to be a lawyer myself. What sort of work do you want to do? .Karnage Krew Gear Store .

cant say i would watch it a few times, and wondering if i should watch it again though with subtites but have not really slept in a few days so maybe that would be better time spent. .Karnage Krew Gear Store .