NeoX

Your facetious method of saying I am incompetent is misguided and opinionated. You contradicted yourself insofar as you said, "If you have ever visited their websites its hard to miss". What if I haven't? It's not a requirement to trawl the website of the manufacturer of everything I buy, nor is it expected. The issue of the manual has already been discussed above. You're incompetent. He's doing his Superman thing.

............................................................................. Warped logic at best????? Airplanes are surprisingly fragile. Explosives in the baggage hold can still make them fall out of the sky. Just look at the Air India bombing: 300+ dead. And a Japan-bound flight narrowly missed a similar fate when only baggage-handlers died. May I suggest adding the (American) FAA letter? Lots of skydivers leave a copy of the letter laying inside their luggage, on top of their rig. The FAA letter can be down-loaded from the USPA website. How is it warped logic? I'm fully aware that a plane is fragile and can be brought down by a bomb. My logic was based on the decision of the security officers because they allowed me to put the rig in the hold despite suspecting it was a bomb. The only other alternative conclusion was that they are stupid and negligent. This is why I used the word 'perhaps'. He's doing his Superman thing.

Interesting, as this is exactly what they did in my case. I did wonder, but I just assumed they knew what they were doing (as there were lots of security officers involved all agreeing on the decision to put my rig in the hold). I just thought perhaps it's considered less of a risk in the hold because a bomb (that doesn't bring the plane down) would be better to go off in the hold away from the passengers than in the cabin where passengers would surely die regardless of whether the plane is brought down or not. They didn't speak English. I know the difference, and I know Réunion, as does my girlfriend who is Mauritian and speaks French, Créole and English. Let's not get into conspiracy theories.

And yes your expectations are too high; of documents, of workers knowledge and language skills, of your ability to take your rig carry on for which you have no right, and probably for the rest of the world. I'm done. I've looked more closely at my Vigil 2+ manual and I can see that it does indeed say on page 5 that I should carry the manual (which I do) and the X-ray Card on any commercial flight. I was wrong and I apologise to both you and gowlerk for being wrong on this point. I am humble therefore capable of apologising. I trust I'll get no apology for your offensive words towards me. But I am young and can handle it. I disagree that my expectations of the language skills of workers in the travel industry are too high however for the reasons mentioned earlier, but that's irrelevant to this topic, so not worth arguing. On my right to take my rig as hand luggage, I find it interesting that I "have no right" to do so. I thought that I had the right to take on any hand luggage I wanted that wasn't in the list of disallowed items. However, I also understand that security have the right to refuse anything they consider a risk. This to me is a logical conflict that would only arise due to a misjudgement of said risk. I believed security officers should recognise an AAD based on training, but wanted to test that posit by posting this topic. I now understand that this expectation was too high and that the X-ray Card is the key to preventing the misjudgement of the aforementioned risk. Therefore, I will take the X-ray Card with me in future unless I have the option to put the rig in the hold (depending on hold allowance). So, thank you for helping me eventually get to the information I was looking for. Shame it needed to go round the houses of Internet arguing. PS: My profile lists my location as such because it was the last place I lived before my current country which is not available in the dropdown box; therefore, I cannot select my current country on dropzone.com. He's doing his Superman thing.

You are wrong in that I failed to read the manual because I read the entire manual the day I received my rig. It contains nothing about airport security or X-ray Cards. Therefore you are also wrong about me "relying on someone in [my] skydiving circle to spoon feed [me] what [I'] need to know" re my AAD (since I have read the entire manual). I have already read my container manual the day I received my rig. I'm not sure why you're mentioning this as it is off-topic, but this is making you appear stupid as you are presuming things that are incorrect. I also did not buy used, and I have not made any excuses. Nor did I make any excuse about the language they are written in. This is the exact same link I posted in my first post - I am unsure why you are reposting the same link. I'd suggest you do yourself a favour and sit down and read and understand all of this topic before your next post. Also, I never thanked you and I did not ask you to spoonfeed me. I'll paraphrase what I replied to Terry as you and he seem to be equally dense in understanding my point... Correct it's not unexpected that documents from a French agency are in French. But I think you completely missed my point. What's unexpected is that documents on Vigil's webpage concerning airport security worldwide (which is country-agnostic) are from a French agency/in French. Do you get it now? And what has "Britain" got to do with anything? I don't even live in "Britain" wherever "Britain" is. And you talk about "Britain's" involvement in the EU as if I care. I don't. He's doing his Superman thing.

Because ALL international agreements/treaties/shit like that are drafted in French. Has always been. I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I knew about the X-Ray card before I even owned my own rig. I think you just didn't plan very well* and, as a result, had this unfortunate experience. *read 'wasn't aware of the X-ray Card' I'm glad you knew about the X-ray Card before you owned your own rig. I didn't. That means nothing other than you were told about it; I wasn't. You were lucky to have someone in your skydiving circle that had this information. He's doing his Superman thing.

Advice? Include some 'planning'. Like bring the documents provided to help with security, learning French since your visiting French territory rather than expecting everyone else in the world to learn your language, AND be prepared for the rig to be opened or not allowed on the airplane at all! (as TSA in the U.S. reserves the right to do). While this doesn't happen very often it can. And not surprising that documents from a French agency and French.speaking company are in French. I'm not sure if you're just being arrogant or completely obtuse. I wasn't aware of the documents till after the trip since I have never had trouble taking my rig on board previously - this was made very clear in my original post. Now I'm aware of them, I will take them. The purpose of my post was to seek advice based on what I'd found - no need for you to be offensive about it. Saying I should learn French is also an absolutely absurd remark to say. Do you learn the language of every country you go on holiday to, Mr American Boy? I seriously doubt it! It's a generally-accepted rule that anyone working in the travel industry should speak English as this is the global lingua franca. My girlfriend who is Mauritian (native language is Créole) and works in the travel industry confirms this. And why is it not surprising that the documents listed on the Vigil website are in French? Correct it's not surprising that documents from a French agency are in French. But I think you completely missed my point. What's surprising is that documents on Vigil's webpage concerning airport security worldwide (which is country-agnostic) are from a French agency/in French. I think Terry was responding to the overall tone of self entitlement in your post. I would agree with him 100% and your response to him confirms it. I don't know why you feel people should be required to accommodate your needs at all times, but they are not. You are coming off as the English equivalent to the ugly American. There was no tone of self-entitlement. I stated the facts free of emotion. Terry's response was emotion-driven and full of arrogance. I don't "feel people should be required to accommodate [my] needs at all time". However, there is a minimum level of service a paying customer should expect. And I expect to be able to take a rig on board as hand luggage and for security officers to be trained to recognise an AAD. I posted this topic for advice to ascertain if my expectation level is too high or if I should take alternative action such as carry the X-ray Card I found online, or write a letter of complaint (to which authorities?), or otherwise (such as put in the hold well packaged as others have suggested). I don't really care about your emotional issues, but if you want to win the Internet today, feel free to carry on arguing. He's doing his Superman thing.

Define 'here'. I'm just seeking advice via the Internet. I live in the real world unlike some who live on 'here'. He's doing his Superman thing.

Advice? Include some 'planning'. Like bring the documents provided to help with security, learning French since your visiting French territory rather than expecting everyone else in the world to learn your language, AND be prepared for the rig to be opened or not allowed on the airplane at all! (as TSA in the U.S. reserves the right to do). While this doesn't happen very often it can. And not surprising that documents from a French agency and French.speaking company are in French. I'm not sure if you're just being arrogant or completely obtuse. I wasn't aware of the documents till after the trip since I have never had trouble taking my rig on board previously - this was made very clear in my original post. Now I'm aware of them, I will take them. The purpose of my post was to seek advice based on what I'd found - no need for you to be offensive about it. Saying I should learn French is also an absolutely absurd remark to say. Do you learn the language of every country you go on holiday to, Mr American Boy? I seriously doubt it! It's a generally-accepted rule that anyone working in the travel industry should speak English as this is the global lingua franca. My girlfriend who is Mauritian (native language is Créole) and works in the travel industry confirms this. And why is it not surprising that the documents listed on the Vigil website are in French? Correct it's not surprising that documents from a French agency are in French. But I think you completely missed my point. What's surprising is that documents on Vigil's webpage concerning airport security worldwide (which is country-agnostic) are from a French agency/in French. He's doing his Superman thing.

Yesterday, I went through security with my rig as hand luggage at Saint-Denis (Roland Garros) Airport in Réunion Island and security officers didn't recognise the main unit of my Vigil AAD on the X-ray scan. As a result, me and my girlfriend were taken into the nearby security office where we were questioned by several officers including the airport Chief of Security. He said that the unidentified object looks like an explosive device and insisted that my rig be put in the hold. We explained that the device is part of the advanced technology that exists in all modern parachutes and that subjecting the equipment to baggage handling (handlers accidentally pulling and repacking my reserve, playing rugby with it, throwing it haphazardly, etc.) could result in my equipment failing the next time I skydive which could potentially result in my death unless I have the reserve repacked (and who would pay that?). He said that "It's sad but that's the way it is." They said that if the check-in desk closed, then I would not be able to take my rig with me at all. So I was forced to do as they said to save the potential hassle of having to try and get a new flight at no cost or paying for it and then having to make a claim, etc., etc. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it would've been for me to assign blame and responsibility among the parties involved (security, the airline, etc.). I was infuriated by the way the whole matter was dealt with, not least their incompetence and I ensured they knew this inasmuch as it wasn't really about security, but more about their incompetence to not recognise what parachute equipment looks like. I have travelled with my rig out of London, Dubai and Mauritius, and never had this problem. My view is that security personnel are supposed to be trained on what various items including popular sports equipment should look like. The fact that not one of the numerous officers there recognised it is worrying. It is even more worrying that not one of them could speak English! My girlfriend had to translate from French for me, which made the whole palaver even more painful. Has anyone else had similar problems, particularly in France (Réunion is technically part of France)? Who should I complain to? I can complain to the airport and/or the airport security authority, but should I also complain to the tourist board, the council, the FFP, anyone else? I note that Vigil provide an X-ray card - would this be sufficient in future? There are a number of other documents on the Vigil website here including an EU Classification document and DGAC - French Authorization letters. Réunion is in the EU incidentally. But it's interesting that these documents are also in French! Any advice would be appreciated here as I am planning on going to Réunion at least once every month in the future. He's doing his Superman thing.

... It could very well be that according to their experience, they cannot guarantee operations due to the small number of jumpers. Also in some places, you cannot jump on sundays, or not all day, due to noise restrictions/Church operations etc.... Yep, I figured it would be due to number of jumpers or some legal restrictions. Just want to know what the actual reason is. At least if it's due to number of jumpers, then at least it's something that could change if the DZ gets busier. On the face of it, and judging from their FB page, it seems to be a decent DZ, yet it's not listed on here and there's very little info about it online. Whereas Mauritius is a comparably much smaller operation, but is listed on here and has much more online presence. He's doing his Superman thing.

OK, that's great - thank you for the information. I've just added you on Facebook. So what time do you stop jumping on Sunday? Why not jump all day till sunset? And what are the 25 € and 9 € prices? Is this with kit hire and without kit hire respectively? He's doing his Superman thing.

No. I didn't think it was necessary. He's doing his Superman thing.

No. What do you mean? He's doing his Superman thing.

It's been a year since I posted this thread, but I just want to say I now have a rig and thank you to everyone who gave advice on here. In the end, I went for all new from Sunshine Factory in Z-Hills. I got a custom Jav with all options including Skyhook, plus Pilot 168 and PD Optimum 150, plus Vigil AAD. Very very happy with it - picked it up a month ago, done six jumps on it now, and the openings are very nice, but do scare me a little at how slow they are. Sometimes I feel like I'm heading into a high-speed mal before I realise I've got a snivelly Pilot above me just taking its time He's doing his Superman thing.

Cool idea, but will likely end up in the graveyard of other specialised "social networks" that never take off as it were. Just use the existing tools at your disposal - Facebook DZ pages (where probably every skydiver at that DZ will get notifications and check their FB every 5 seconds like most people). And there are regional Facebook pages that cover a geographic area that I think most jumpers will be members of in their given area for the same reasons as the DZ pages. Post in the DZ or regional FB page of where you're planning to go, and I'm sure anyone relevant will reply. But if you still want to create the next MySpace for skydivers, here's some website name suggestions: Plentyofjumpers.com Skinder (like Tinder for skydivers) Skitter or Jitter (like Twitter for skydivers/jumpers) Instajump (guess) ....... He's doing his Superman thing.

OK, that's brilliant - thanks for the info. I was getting worried I'd have to take up scuba diving or something! The DZ is not listed here - would be good if someone connected with the DZ adds it. And yes, I'll probably use my holiday time from work to check out the DZs in South Africa - I've heard good things about them. He's doing his Superman thing.

I'm moving to Mauritius next month and I'm considering my skydiving options given that the DZ there is a tandem operation with a 4-seater Cessna 182. The only chance of getting a fun jump is if they only have one tandem going up and then they charge £48 for the pleasure. And it's from 10,000 ft and you need to have a minimum of 500 jumps and C Licence. Flying to South Africa every weekend is prohibitively expensive (£413 minimum return flight). So I've discovered a DZ on nearby Réunion island. I can't find much info on it online apart from what's on the website, but they seem to support fun jumpers for much cheaper and go up to 13,000 ft in a Pilatus Porter which is obviously much bigger (and I've jumped out of in Ocaña, Spain). Does anyone have any knowledge of this DZ and what it's like for sports jumping? I've tried calling but no one is picking up at the moment. He's doing his Superman thing.

I'm highly likely to be moving to Mauritius in a couple of months and I'm a little worried that my skydiving might suffer because the existing dropzone there only has a plane big enough for two tandems, and they charge £48 per jump for fun jumpers if there is even enough space (i.e., one tandem going up, which isn't often). My other option is to fly to South Africa every weekend or so, and jump there for as little as £9 per jump. So, I'm wondering what would the possibility be of expanding the existing dropzone there. I could put money into it to hire a plane and build up the facilities, but I'm wondering if it would even be a going concern. The island only has about 1m population (probably very few skydivers), so the DZ would probably depend on fun jumper tourists more than anything. I just don't know if there could be enough business to keep a plane maintained and keep lifts going frequently all day long. I haven't proposed anything to the existing DZ yet, but it may be that they have already done a due diligence on it, or they may not have the money to expand, or they may just want to keep it as a small tandem operation. Thoughts please?... He's doing his Superman thing.

Putin told me. We're besties. He's doing his Superman thing.

The freefall would have to last veeeeeery long for that to happen to me. I aim to please He's doing his Superman thing.

I'm looking for my first rig and I've been researching and talking to various people at dropzones, and I'm still a little confused at all the choice and I'm still not decided whether to go for new or second-hand (e.g., I've had opposing opinions on this). So, here's where I'm at. I'm 5'11", slim-normal build with 92 jumps. I'm looking for a 170 or 190 canopy ideally in a container that can downsize one level in the future. Ideally, I'd like a complete rig ready to jump, but I'm willing to buy separately if it results in a better overall rig and/or works out cheaper. My biggest fear is a fatal malfunction that could be avoided with newer technology, so I'd prefer a rig with a Skyhook if possible (which would limit me to certain container manufacturers). My budget is ideally £2000 - £3000 for second-hand, but could pay more for the right rig or if I decide to go new. Any general or specific advice would be very welcome especially regarding manufacturer opinions for canopy and container (the two main things I need but where there's the most choice). The Pilot and Sabre2 canopies seem to be popular. I haven't noticed much favour towards any particular container manufacturer, though. Wings, Javelin, Icon, Aerodyne - they all seem to have their fans. I posted this originally on a UK forum, but the response was minimal, hence reposting on this more international forum. Thanks, Neo He's doing his Superman thing.

You mean 'work' not 'jumping' during office hours, surely? Thanks for that - that explains the object dropping perfectly. I thought some things had to be approved, but I guess it's largely down to interpretation and discretion. And if anything goes wrong, then investigation and any sanctions will take place after the fact. This is still nuts though because he unhooks himself after deploying so he can hang by his feet. That's crazy enough just on its own! No, that's not what happens, either. You've been duped by editing. Did you actually *see* the transition from hand to feet? Or did the video have a cut right at that moment? It was not done in one take, and that can be determined by anybody who watches the video, whether they're skydivers or not. Do you know how? This is the vid I watched. I can see the slider is a different colour in different parts, and the canopy colour looks different (but not sure if that's the filter effects or saturation used in different parts of the video). But the one thing that stands out is that his hair is slightly longer in some parts. However, I wasn't "duped". My information about him unhooking was from Remster on the forum here. If you know all this, then why ask the questions? Are you truly this starved for attention? The USPA has no "jurisdiction." They are an organization of guidelines, to which dropzones adhere. Whether they let non-USPA members jump there or not is at their discretion. Do they accept FAI? BPA? APF? The USPA doesn't say that DZ's have to (or not have to) sell a jump ticket to a giraffe. Nor do they specify whether the giraffe has to be inside or outside the aircraft. They also don't address whether one can or cannot answer their cell phone in freefall. Nor do they say one must wear clean underwear. There are many things the USPA doesn't address. The one thing they constantly address is the FARs. If it's not found in the FARs, it's entirely permissible until someone does something stupid and the FARs end up being changed as a result. Pastrana wasn't just in trouble with the USPA. You understand this, yes? I guess it's because I don't know all the answers that I'm asking questions. Crazy concept eh!? I also understand Travis was FAA blacklisted. So, I'm realising now that USPA (and assumedly BPA) is just guidelines and not something that MUST be complied with as long as FAA (and the UK's CAA) regulations are complied with. I was under the impression that the BPA had much more authority as UK DZs don't allow you to jump unless you're a member. Didn't realise that this was the DZ's discretion. I thought it was a legal requirement. So, thanks for filling me in. Ha! I've never seen this before (even though I live next to the Olympic Stadium). But that's what makes me proud to be a Brit. We brought the world James Bond and the Queen. He's doing his Superman thing.

So, it doesn't explicitly state dropping cars out of a plane is allowed, nor does it prohibit it. It talks about "parachute operations" defining that as the performance of all activity for the purpose of, or in support of, a parachute jump or a parachute drop. This parachute operation can involve, but is not limited to, the following persons: parachutist, parachutist in command and passenger in tandem parachute operations, drop zone or owner or operator, jump master, certificated parachute rigger, or pilot. If it's "not limited to" the given list, does that mean it can involve additional persons, or additional objects (persons and non-persons such as vehicles)? It seems a bit open to say "not limited to" - surely there must be some control on this, say, by some sort of USPA approval process, or is it down to DZO discretion? And if the DZO drops the ball and authorise something silly, the USPA will then come down on them after the fact (such as in Travis Pastrana's case)? Aw Bill, it was fun poking at him with a stick. . . We all know he's pretty harmless.

The list wasn't meant to be exhaustive. I've heard of jumpers get banned (membership cancelled) by the USPA for certain stunts, though. So, surely, approval should be sought from USPA/BPA in some cases to prevent risk of being banned? And would the CAA (and the US equivalent) not be interested in someone dropping a car out of a plane if a DZ is only licensed to drop people normally? Queen is busy today btw - she's been doing a speech. He's doing his Superman thing.