Cloudseeder

Quote ...the Truth is always the Truth. (don't you think this is a bit heavy for a skydiving forum, even for you? ) I believe this to be a Universal Truth. It is not subject to spin or editing or censure. Your Mumbo-Jumbo aside, Alan spoke the Truth in that you all at times appear to be hypocritical, and then his statements were censored. Have fun in your lollipop and lemon drop "dream land". Be thankful that you have little guys like Chuck to look out for you in your fantasy world. Interesting that not one of the chumps who thought they had a go at me had any positive input as to how we should change USPA. Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings, Don L. "Treetop" Jardine

[ Quote The fact that Alans' statements of Truth have been censured here should prove that this forum has no *real* worth. That is true, Sangiro. Opinions do vary,however, facts don't change and the Truth is always the Truth. "Treetop"

I found it to become even more interesting after Alan called the group on their own hypocrisy. The fact that Alans' statements of Truth have been censured here should prove that this forum has no *real* worth. Live in your fantasy land. Gingerbread and Sunshine and never is heard a disparaging word. I envy you your naivete. Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings, "Treetop"

Mr. Von, Your statements above might indicate to others that not only are you a USPA Rah-Rah type, but also that you may be a non-thinking , non-truth seeking ,"jack-ass". Fair Winds, "Treetop"

Yo' Mr. Happy, I'm not hindering any investigation. I 'm suprised that you have never educated yourself as to how to access the BOD minutes! Here's a hint. Go to www.uspa.org , scroll down on the right to BOD, when that page opens click on board minutes. I hope that helps. "Treetop"

QuoteLet me see if I understand our point of view correctly, because I think you -may- have actually changed my mind a bit on this one. What you're saying is that by holding an AFF cert course at your non-GM DZ it doesn't take any business away from a GM DZ. If that is, in fact, the case, then I agree with you. It should probably be allowed without any further cost. Mr Quade , If you'll refer to the Summer 2000 BOD minutes you'll see that the BOD had declared that non-GM DZs could hold a course but that GM DZs would have a priority in holding courses. At the Winter 2001 BOD meeting that was changed to any non GM DZ would pay a fee equal to , bla blka blao, basically the highest GM fee ($400) I don't remember the exact fee at the time. For every course held!!!! At this point it's if a non member Dz had two courses they'd pay twice as much as the highest GM fee. If they held three they'd pay triple the normal GM fee. I , yes yours truly, attended the summer 2001 meting and negotiated a temporary compromise. A stop gap measure ,if you will. If you 'll reference those meeting minutes you will see that compromise as a passed motion. "Treetop"

All the legislative effort USPA puts forth, and development of the instructional programs, costs money. USPA can pass 100 percent of that cost along to you and I as individual members, or they can charge a percentage to us, and a percentage to the profit making dropzones that also derive a benefit. I like the idea of profitable dropzones footing part of the bill for USPA services. I think they should pay for those services out of their business income Mr Buchanan, Who do you think pays the current GMDZO dues? It is the customer . When a business looks at their business plan for the upcoming year they look at planned expenses and expected revenues. They take this data and determine how much planned profit they will realize. They then adjust their retail prices to ensure that they will make at least the expected profit. If there is an expected expense of $400 for the GM program that money isn't coming out of the end year bottom line. That $400 is is coming out of the customers pockets , pennies at a time. The Myth of the GM program is that GMs pay any dues. The fact is that GMs only *collect* dues and pass it on to USPA. "Treetop"

Its really pathetic that people would not send back their proxy last year so some of these election problems could be eliiminated. Unfortunately there aren't enough skydivers out there that care. No Judy, What's really pathetic is that 8 months later you still don't realize that USPA could not allow proxy voting at the Feb BOD meeting. What's really pathetic is that the BOD voted to spend over $7000 on a solicitation of worthless proxies. What's most pathetic is the very real fact that when Our Executive Directr realized the fact that their was no provision in Our By-Laws for proxy voting he attempted to slide in wording which would allow it. LOFL ! The most pathetic is the fact that the ammendment he illegaly added to our By-Laws ..LOL!(excuse me.. ROTFLMOL!!!!!!) The illegal ammendment that Chris Needels added to Our By-Laws to allow voting by proxy... Didn't! ROTFLMOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! $7000 of proxies , To catch the Executive Director of USPA Illegaly ammending Our by-Laws, Priceless! "Treetop"

QuoteHe is complaining because they fixed his punctuation and capitalization. __________________________________________________ No Judy, I'm seeking an injunction because even after being alerted to their mistake USPA refuses to present my statement to the Membership. __________________________________________________ Now he wants to sue the USPA because of it. It sounds like a good waste of my money. Thanks Don! __________________________________________________ Thank the Executive Director. If you had read my letter to him in its entirety you would realize that I stated that I hoped we could "reason together" and that I would prefer that this matter didn't cost the Membership. Chris is the one who wanted to play *hard ball*. First they violate the Rules and you guys want to jump me! I gave them an out . They refuse however ,to release to you my statement. I'd be wondering why!!! Is it what I said or how I said it? Why is USPA willing to expend untold dollars in order to censure me in violation of Our rules?? Yes, something is very wrong here. It ain't me. "Treetop'

I know that you don't have any respect for me; you made that pretty obvious with your attitude when I met you at Rantoul. ________________________________________________ Really? Would you explain that statement? __________________________________________________ I perused the USPA Governance Manual and found section 3-1.2.D.2 on page 40. "If appropriate, minimal editing of the biographical sketches by the committee is authorized to comform to the space available and to provide some uniformity of verbiage and presentation." (italics mine) This section seems to allow editing for reasons of grammar and punctuation, which, if read carefully, section 3-1.2.D.3.e also seems to allow for. __________________________________________________ Ok I think by now it is obvious that that paragraph does not apply to the candidates' "personal statements". Will you admit that you were a little too fast on the draw here Lisa? Will you admit that in your attempt to prove me wrong you never took the time to consider that I just might be right? __________________________________________________ I find it very hard to believe that someone who is "for the fun jumpers" would stoop to causing the association he wishes to be on the board of to spend the fun jumpers money (USPA dues) on defending said organization from a frivilous lawsuit. __________________________________________________ There is nothing "frivolous" about this lawsuit Lisa! USPA has a history of violating Our Rules Of Governance". Violation of Our Election Rules is the most grevious Governance Violation which could be imposed on any organization! To accuse me of forcing the jumpers to spend their money is akin to accusing a rape victim of costing the citizens the court costs to plead their case. Why hasn't USPA simply changed my statement on the website? Why didn't they follow Our Rules originally? Why are they willing to spend your money to hide my statement in violation of Our rules?? Why did Larry Bagley lie to Bill Von about some Governance Manual requirement that all publications be checked for spelling and capitalization? People are saying "He won't post his statement". As previously stated on this thread my attorney has requested that I not divulge particulars. The fact is that Chris Needels has the original anyway. If you would like to view the original statement as submited, contact [email protected] __________________________________________________ Personal attacks and attacks on groups of people are the last resort of someone who has exhausted their argument. It's either attack us or repeat the same tired statements. __________________________________________________ See and here you are somewhat off base. Now I don't know where you were raised but I was all in the street. If I find myself against one or two people I just take 'em on straight. When eight or twenty or a hundred are against me I put my back to a wall and lash out at all of them. I go wild dog crazy mad. __________________________________________________ It's the people who AREN'T posting in this thread and participating in your "most excellent entertainment" you should be thinking about... those who are reading but not commenting on your "arguments" and your refusal to post the one thing that would prove your point once and for all. __________________________________________________ That doesn't concern me. They'll think what they will. I'm not out to persuade anyone. I just tell it like it is.Obviously "It" (USPA) is a hotbed of corruption. If the Members can't see that after all I've exposed, then that's not my problem. They'll get what their own efforts have afforded them. __________________________________________________ btw, even sadder when said person has been asked by one of the people who was involved in the situation to stop bringing it up. __________________________________________________ I'll pm you on that if I can figure out how! Fair Winds, "Treetop"

Stick your head out the door Dave The meteor showers tonight are spectacular!

Please scroll up and reread one of my earlier posts in which I addressed this specifically. __________________________________________________ Nope, cant find that! Of course I limited my search to "logical arguments" ________________________________________________ Oh, and I think the moderators "clocked out" because it is nearly 4am. DZ.dot com types for sure! I'm not sleeping tonight Sir,how about you?

And that is great for people like you who are unwilling to reseach the facts I bet. People like you who talk alot without any facts. So Aggie Dave, Have you looked yet at Our Governance Manual? What does it say about National Director Candidates' statements? Sir? "Treetop"

QuoteYou are trying to persuade me to believe in your arguement, thus it is your responsibility to provide facts to prove your statements, not mine. _________________________________________________ It may be that way in a court situation Aggie Dave but it's not quite like that in a membership association. Different rules don't ch'a know, So have you even gotten off your wide ass to look up Our Governance manual and verify the facts I've provided concerning Section 3-1.2.D.3.d. or have you been too busy talkin' some bullshittin' fake ass sir ? Are you really such an uninformed punk in real life? Look Dave, It's all right there. I led you to the ring. Now read it and stand up. The greenies aren't going to help you out here because they've already read and figured out that I'm right on. Now it's time for you to educate yourself Dave. Then you can talk as an educated man. "Treetop"

[] That hits the nail on the head. God bless you HH. Yes ,God bless you HH inverted bunch of y s

QuotePosting flamebait instead of answers to reasonable questions will get you nowhere. Would you please post your unedited statement or even just a specific example of how your statement was edited? Sure, No problem. Now this is going to take some effort on your part. First pull out your November issue of Parachutist. Go ahead, turn to the candidates and find the "Treetop" section. Ok, now go to the USPA.org website . Go through all that and find the "Treetop entry . Now look at the second line right under the name. Did you notice any difference? I damn sure did. It appears that Our official publication ,"Parachutist" states that I live in California. The website shows me as living in Georgia. ha,spt,laff,ha. Now some of you may not see a big difference in whether the electorate is led to believe that I live on the west coast when actually I live on the east coast. I've been up ,I've been down ,I've been all around,and I know when some one is bs'n me. I can smell it coming on from way out. Most of you think or believe that this is all about my statement this year. I love you people and envy your naivete. Well not really. If I was that naive I'd feel like a chump! I'd be researching my ass off! But I can smell the BS way out and it's getting stronger. Watch for something major. Something very unjust.It will make some of you very happy but many of you who hold personal mores will think "that's not right". You won't do anything , you'll punk out. You'll take no action but you'll just know that that's not right! But it will be too late anyway. Because you didn't watch your organization and hold them to Our Rules. "Treetop" a.k.a. LORD OF THE SKY

[We know you are telling the truth about the Governance Manual. Nobody has questioned that the Manual says that statements must be printed exactly as submitted. __________________________________________________ Thank you! __________________________________________________ Some of us might even believe that your statement has been edited, __________________________________________________ Brian, if you believe my statement has been edited in violation of Our Rules of Governance have you asked HQ for an original copy of my statement? Have you asked HQ where they get off violating Our Rules of Governance? Because Brian, If you admit that no editing of a candidates statement is allowed, than any editing of a candidates statement is necessarily a very large issue. We are talking about censuring political free speech. _________________________________________________ but your childish refusal to post your original statement or even a specific example of how it was edited only serves to hurt your position. __________________________________________________ Brian, all I can say is that this matter may go to litigation and my attorney has requested that I don't speak about the particulars at this time. "Treetop"

This allows for the statement to be made fit to print, assessed on an item by item basis. __________________________________________________ There you go Sir, Just ask Madolyn which items she approved to be changed on a "line to line basis". This will be "Most Excellent Entertainment". Get right back to us now sir, heah? _________________________________________________ Please refrain from questioning my intelligence. No problems. It's obviously not a question!

QuoteActually, yes I have looked at the Governance Manual, I think you're assuming a bit much about me on your part. This individual thread has died a slow and painful death due to your insecurity, unwillingness and seeming inability to post your original statement or even answer direct questions. This and your sexually harrasing statements towards Michele has taken DZ.com to a new low; your posts alone have reminded me why I quit paying attention to wreck-dot-skydiving. Well, if anything I can be assured that you have lost many votes through this thread, which is sad since this site could have been a great tool for you. No where else in the world are more skydivers and more USPA members gathered in one spot and easily reached. I expect this thread to be locked before too long. __________________________________________________ You are so far out there also Sir! You think you know what you're talkin' about but you really have no clue. If you had read section 3-1 of Our Governance Manual it would be obvious to you that no editing of the candidates' statements is allowed. If you read that section and didn't realize that fact I guess you'll be spending quite a bit more time as a student

Yeah, Phree...every village needs an idiot.... You may have that mental pix, but I can't help but hear that old song in my head "I see your true colors, shining through....". It is, after all is said and done, most excellent entertainment! __________________________________________________ So any way, tell me Michelle, Have you taken even the first glance as to verify the Truth of our Governance Manual? "Treetop"

__________________________________________________ No it's not good discusion from what I've seen Sir Dave, It's a mindless ,non questioning , follow the leader group. Tell me have you even looked at the Governance Manual? Do you have even the hope of a clue?Sir? "Treetop"

Quote Phree , Sometime soon you'll be made aware of just how much of a fool you are today. Not just you, the rest of the cast as well. When any Governing body doesn't abide by their own Rules of Governance , but instead intentionally and with fore-thought disregards their own rules of Governance you are left with a Tyranny. You get out of it what you put into it and as of yet not one of you have agreed or accepted that my statement was edited in violation of our Rules of Governance. Further, not one of you has directed an Inquiry to HQ to view my statement as originally submitted. All of you have been just too damn busy clockin' me to look at the truth that is way larger than I . You certainly haven't been investigatin' any Truths about your Own Association! You won't even admit that Our Rules don't allow any editing of a candidates' statement even though that is easily verifiable and in Black and white. Laughing, You all disgust me. I don't want your sissy ass votes. Keep your "sissy" comments to yourself around here and you might not find yourself permanently banned. That being said, keep a civil tongue around here or carry your rant "back across the street." -Chuck Blue

By engaging our forum in the manner in which you have, quite quickly you have made yourself look like an ass __________________________________________________ My Dave! I am quite shocked at your statement! Where are the moderators, the meanie greenies? What happened to the dignity of debate , you know Sir,.. and all that other shallow emptiness of fake cordiality, If I didn't know better I would think you are displaying a moment of un-political corectness! So maybe you should take a little time in the "time out" room and I'll answer your questions when you can present them in a manner which dosen't exude such "hate". Fair Winds and Unlimited Ceilings Aggie Dave, I hope you get help with your aggresion problems, "Treetop"