Stiletto VS Cobalt

[LawnDart21 0]

Good morning Lurch, don't feel bad about landing at the end of the run way, A) I kind of hosed you by hanging upside down off the wing of the Cessna for so long on jump run.....lol B) Since we were the only two in the air, and I was first out and noticed we were long to begin with, I just tracked back to the DZ and opened up over the wind sock. No worries, your canopy piloting skills as I see them are as solid as anyone's at 110 jumps. Your doing great! Given our landing area is usually full of jumpers of all abilities aiming for the same spot (the peas), I'd say you'd be better served by not jumping an elliptical canopy just yet, that includes, yes, the Cobalt....lol You are head sup enough that you could probably jump my Cobalt 105 tomorrow (given your weight of about 135 lbs) and in perfect conditions land it on a straight in approach on your butt and be fine. It';s having to land a smaller elliptical canopy in traffic or make a last second adjustment or even worse, having to land in a backyard the size of a postage stamp, that is when the conservative loading you are jumping will save yoru life instead of put you in the hospital. seeing as I know your flying capabilities better than most, here's my .02.....
You are definitely ready to downsize to a 170, like on your next jump. We need to find you a used Sabre1 170 to put 10-30 jumps, or however many it takes so you feel comfortable. In terms of plunking down money for another canopy? You'll be happiest under a 150 in the long run. To be honest, you don't need an elliptical just yet, (in terms of backyard landings anyways), I think a Sabre 150 will be an ideal canopy (plenty of fun) for you to progress on for 100s of jumps and keep you safe while helping you get back from longer spots. Conveniently enough.....lol.....I have a Sabre150 you are welcome to jump once you are ready to downsize from a 170 to a 150. Mary is downsizing to my Cobalt 135, so the Sabre 150 I own is in a pillow case collecting dust, your welcome to jump it all you want. Let's set a time for early next season to reevaluate the elliptical canopy situation for you. You have plenty of time (and jumps to decide). If you decide then you want a Cobalt, after demoing one of mine, then yes, of course I will help you get one. As for Crossfires? the one Shay had a problem with was a demo that was just way out of trim on one side, probably just from being a demo for so long. I've jumped Crossfires and Crossfire2, 139s, 129s, 119s, 109s and 99s, and overall, my honest opinion is that they all fly great and open great. They are quality canopies. They had a problem with the canopy and they fixed it, things happen like that in this sport, its part of the evolution of canopy flight. All things being equal, there are alot of quality canopies out there, elliptical, semi elliptical and square. You will find jumpers (including myself) tend to be fiercely brand loyal when it comes to their gear. I jump Cobalts becuase I love them. In my opinion they are the best canopy on the market, some agree with me, others don't its all good. I 'll ask around the DZ and see if we can find you a 170 this weekend. We can pick up the conversation again then. Don't forget about the graduation/engagement party saturday night either.

ps- one other factor, we need to determine the smallest main canopy you can safely put in your gear. How big is your reserve by the way? - Tom

[r2hubert 0]

That is a great news, I'm going to see by my self then!

--
Renaud SMA #9
"Mind is like parachute. It only functions when it's open."

[lurch 0]

Hey...
If I'd been more heads-up while climbing out myself I'd have noticed I ought to turn and track...but then again I wouldn't have tracked anyway...my first and only previous hop and pop last year I dumped immediately. This time was from 1000' lower but with a wait till 3 grand...I had NO idea I was going to hang there that long, I was thinking like last time, drop off, count to 5 and pull, but this time wait on the pull till 3 grand....so at 5 I stopped counting and started watching ground and alti. didn't realize that meant a 14-second delay till I read the pro-track...I was amazed how long I hung there at 4000' till the speed built up and the needle started moving. Anyway I DID make it back to the dz at least, and it was worth it seeing that exit...that was COOL.
I was out there today, a tandem and an aff wanted up so I figured I'd hitchhike. Didn't work, thick clouds closed it out. Hit up Don's place and inquired...turns out the last 170 in-house is currently in Allison's ride. He offered me a 175 triathlon 7-cell...I almost took him up on it for the experience but my few rides on rental 218 7-cells kinda turned me off on 7's cause of the to me unusually steep descent rate. Felt kinda slushy handlingwise and had a lot less glide than I expected and wanted. Decided to skip it for now...real small baby step and in what feels like the wrong direction. He offered me a 150. This I considered...hell, the jump before that cessna hop was the first time I ever got a clear shot at the peas with no traffic or nearby canopies and I hit em first try standing up....and I'll STILL be barely over 1-1. Tempting....so tempting....Decided to wait and consult more on that. Turned out while looking over the 7-cell he didn't have any 150's left in house anyway....and if it shows up tomorrow, I'm not taking it. Fuck being ballsy. I'll keep my ankles. I'm still packing the 190 till something comes up.
Side note: I tried out kenny's dirtbike today out back. (thanks kenny!) I've never ridden a bike before, any bike, and wasn't even sure how the controls are laid out and no clue how to shift it. 15 minutes later I was hauling ass all over the gravel pit eating 8-inch rocks for breakfast and had a hell of a time till it ran out of gas right when I was getting the hang of shifting it fast and keeping it romping...lovely powerband, haulass toy, more than a handful for my first time, didn't even wipeout, (couldn't get really daring...riding no armor no helmet, no bike jumping allowed.)...Hell of a workout, I think I just found a novel way to force myself to quit smoking....
edit: my reserve is a raven II 218.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[LawnDart21 0]

I jumped that 175 Triathalon on Hawaii my first tiem out in Hawaii. It's actually a good canopy, I think I put 100 jumps on it in total. I think the reason you had a lame experience with the 218 (if it's the canopy I am thinking of), is because its a POS, with a billion jumps on it and really old and tired. (I think Moses actually jumped it........). You might want to reconsider the 175, its a good canopy and would be better than continuing to hang under the 190.
"Blue Skies, Black Clothes, Must Be Lurch" - T

[AndyMan 7]

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Ok process of elimination here....forget icarus then, right off the bat I want reliable and trouble-free so scratch icarus, scratch spinetto.

Since your're ruling out the two most popular H/P canopies right off the bat....

Maybe I could suggest you jump a Raven 4? Or, maybe a Manta? Maybe you'll find them more to your liking...


Repeat after me:

ANY HIGH PERFORMANCE CANOPY CAN, AND WILL SPIN UP.

Cobalts, Stilettos, Crossfires, Nitro's, Samurais, whatever. Any difference in the spin-up rate is trivial.

I've chopped my Triathlon because it spun. I have not chopped my Stiletto.

ANY HIGH PERFORMANCE CANOPY CAN KILL YOU WHEN THEY HIT TURBULENCE.

People die every year under Cobalts, Crossfires, Stiletos, Samurai's. At least Icarus was smart enough to recall and fix their broken Crossfires.

Unless you've got a personal grudge against Icarus, I would consider the crossfire 2. It is a very good canopy.

Likewise, unless you've bought into all the stories about "Spinetto"s - a name that goes back 10 years, I would consider the Stiletto.

If you're so convinced the Cobalt has none of these problems, then buy one blind. However, it would be smarter to talk to some of the people here who hate them, like some of the guys who sold them after having them for less then a month.

However, if you were REALLY smart, you'd keep your mind open, use demo programs, and put at least 10 jumps on a canopy before making up your mind about it.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[lurch 0]

Um, the angry sounding sarcasm doesn't go over very well, man. I take this sort of thing rather seriously since rumor has it most nasty damage happens to jumpers right where I am...at around 100 jumps and freshly downsized. Bad place and time to be, better stay extremely wary and cautious. I have no grudge against icarus rides, I can have no opinion of my own about them, having never flown one, they look quite tasty and after inquiring as to where the opinion i heard came from decided to reject it as too subjective, bunk opinion and not accurate enough to influence my canopy choice. I'm not convinced of ANYTHING about cobalts, I've seen lawndart's cobalt spin up a bit on video some time ago, and seen him spin it right back out again. Seems to me ANYTHING hi-performance or not can spin you if you handle it wrong.
I AM using a demo canopy and about to switch to another....next time I get a chance I will try that 175 tri, what the hell why not.
I buy nothing (canopy/high$ gear related) blind. Not for that kind of money. For me its more like 15-20 jumps, I want to be sure of a decision. You might have noticed I've been info-mining like mad lately and most of that has been not online but in person on the dz. I'm mining here to get an even wider spread of info/opinions/experience than is available at my dz. I'm not ready for a cobalt and thus do not want one yet. If I understand the differences well enough I'll stick with nonelliptical squares for the next season at least...its not like I'm bored up there, I just want to eliminate the disadvantages of jumping something oversized, such as smacking into windwalls everyone else can fly through and wasting time trying to inflate a canopy thats more sensitive to underloading than my old 210 was. I'd say I'm not stupid but you know, every time I hear someone say "i'm not stupid" they're being stupid. There is remarkably little specific info out there about the exact differences between conservative/aggressive canopies, I'm being as receptive as I can in the hopes of educating myself about what I'm getting into to live longer uninjured. I like my knees and legs, they've served me well and I would prefer they remain factory stock...titanium is stylish I'm sure but its something I can do without. Thanks for the input. Filed and noted.
edit: I'm not buying an icarus or a cobalt, I see no need to get a lamborghini when all I really want and know how to use is a midgrade camaro.
-peace and gentle landings.....
-lurch.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[Ron 7]

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I'd say I'm not stupid but you know,
every time I hear someone say "i'm not stupid" they're being stupid.

Damn I love that saying!!!!

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[LawnDart21 0]

Cut Lurch some slack Andy, he's asking legitimate questions about canopies, because he wants to learn. If you ever heard one of his adrenaline fueld roars after landing, you'd understand, Lurch, eats, sleeps, and breathes skydiving. Most of the things we learn in the sport are learned from others, including canopy impressions. Correct and incorrect info is passed on based on personal experiences, and personal biases. I even said in one of my last posts how much I like the Crossfire, it is a great canopy. At our DZ, where Lurch did his AFF, we had some bad situations with Crossfires, that stuck out. It's what he learned as a student and he posted it here to learn from it. As for "Spinettos", I mean, c'mon man, Javelin makes arguably the best container on the planet, and you'll still here people say "Unravellin' Javelin", why? Because of a past problem with riser covers perhaps? long since fixed, but it sounds catchy, so people say it. "Spinetto" sounds catchy too, but people continuet o buy them, why? Because they are great canopy as well. Cut Lurch some slack, he's just trying to learn. The only reason he even started asking about Cobalts is becuase I fly one and have tried to be a mentor to him on the DZ the last year or so. I (shameless self promotion.....lol) fly the shit out of my 105, so its what he sees, what he knows. There is only one Crossfire being jumped on our DZ right now and no one is jumping Stilletos. Solely out of jumper preference this season. Last season we had 6 Crossifre jumpers. Things change year to year. So Lurch hears bad things about Crossfires and Stilletos and then notices no one jumping them on the DZ this season, makes a connection between what he heard and what he sees (or doesn't see in this case) and poses a question on the canopies. Its that simple. Trash talking gear is as much a part of bonfire lore as are the jump stories. No one (except you it seems) takes it literally. One more time, cut Lurch some slack.

ps- Your comment about people dying under all kinds of canopies each year is true. Any canopy can kill you, but lets not shift focus on the canopy. The majority of all canopy fataliies are due to pilot error, not canopy failure. And how do we become better canopy pilots? We ask questions? Where do we ask questions? Our DZ, Where else? Dropzone.com. Don't be so quick to get all up in arms, or to quote "Malibu's most wanted....."

"Don't be hating"

Peace, I'm outta here, I gotta go pack a spinner on my Cobalt............lol

-Tom

[johnny1488 1]

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edit: I'm not buying an icarus or a cobalt, I see no need to get a lamborghini when all I really want and know how to use is a midgrade camaro.

The safire2 or omni are not hot rods. They have very reasonable performance. I am actually selling my safire2 169 because it doesnt dive enough for me. Getting a crossfire2 169. The safire2 is comperable to a sabre2 and the omni to a spectre or tri. Dont rule out anything (within reason) before you try it. You could be missing out on your favorite canopy.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome