scroadload 1 #1 October 14, 2007 Thanks and Blue Skies JohnD-2626, SCR1999, SCS641, NSCR2350, GW6909 Blue Skies!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #2 October 14, 2007 Quote Thanks and Blue Skies John See DiveMaker.com and Formations For Dummies The hot tip for prime or odd number formations is to 'think' 4-way, 8-way etc and then overlay slots to eliminate a slot to get the desired number. See attached for sample double stairstep diamonds, double donuts and a hybrid stairstep diamond and donut. In real life, a big notebook of formations is great to prep your head, but you have to be flexible when organizing pick-up loads and be able to adjust formations on the fly. That's when overlay techniques come in very handy. When you know you have EXACTLY so many people and their skill level, the big library helps a lot. Remember to include break-off and traffic pattern rules in the dirt dive. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scroadload 1 #3 October 15, 2007 http:www.mtda.net/Skydiving Formations/11 Way.jpg) one page of my doodles for 11 Way formations. Now looking at the "HEART" formation (on the right middle) do you have a name for this formation that's different than mine? If so my proposed online database would help clear this up. Then if I came to your DZ and you said lets do an 11 way "heart" we'd all know what we are doing. Also would give you a place to make your formations known to everyone else.D-2626, SCR1999, SCS641, NSCR2350, GW6909 Blue Skies!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #4 October 15, 2007 Quote http:www.mtda.net/Skydiving Formations/11 Way.jpg) one page of my doodles for 11 Way formations. Now looking at the "HEART" formation (on the right middle) do you have a name for this formation that's different than mine? If so my proposed online database would help clear this up. Then if I came to your DZ and you said lets do an 11 way "heart" we'd all know what we are doing. Also would give you a place to make your formations known to everyone else. In theory it would be nice if you could get a bunch of recreational jumpers to remember what a 'heart' is. The only place I see something like that is in the hard core competitors. They remember letters or numbers, not the names of the formations. In real life, saying 'Let's build a heart' does not answer the question 'Where do I go?' for each of the 11 randomly assembled jumpers. However, if you say 'M' to a 4-way team they all know exactly where to go. The difference is that Boogie organizing does not have groups that all have a specific and constant exit position and they do not know the build sequence (on exit or at any other time). 4-way teams have an assigned exit position and assigned A and B slots for each formation. Back to the group you want to build a heart with.... I'd stand with my arms out and say 'I need two more for a 3-way.' Bill and Joe step up and take grips. Then I'd say 'I need a 3-way loop between me and Joe.' Sally, Tom and Bob pick up grips. Then I'd say 'I need a 3-way loop between Bill and Joe.' Eric, Sam and Jen pick up grips. Then I'd say 'You 2 leftovers, make a loop between Bob and Jen.' Then I'd turn to Sally and say 'That is the front floater slot. Do you think you can do that?' Sally says 'I've never done it before.' I say 'Great! This is the perfect time to learn how to do it. I'll show you everything you need to know.' etc, etc explaining that Eric and Sam are rear floaters..., here's the build sequence, come straight into your slot, dock with no momentum... all the usual stuff. On larger formations, I'll build the base with me in it and then walk around to the next slot pick up grips and say 'I need someone here. This is a {floater, diver, long diver slot}.' or if it's a +20 way say 'I need a loop between {Name 1} and {Name 2}.' If you have people that are familiar with the 'Formations for Dummies', you can say 'I need a cat off of {Name 1}, stairstep off of {Name 2} etc. As dives get larger and still are pickup loads, people tend to gravitate to the slots they know they can do well, as long as you point out line of flight. If you don't point out LOF, then you may hose someone. I don't mean to frown upon a library of formations, available a priori. I have not experienced a situation where this actually works in real life for pick up loads. Pre-planned invitationals are a whole 'nother ball game. As an organizer, a big library really does help. Sharing that with the world makes no difference in what you have to do at the dirt dive. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scroadload 1 #5 October 15, 2007 Well my thoughts were to make different formation's so that we wouldn't get stuck in the rut of doing the same formations over and over. My experience has been something like this " what do you want to do? I don't know what do you want to do? how about we do a dancing spider, naw we did that yesterday, well then lets do a zipper to a bfr to a murphy than to a line and if we have time we'll go to the top, well i guess that'll be OK, lets dirt dive it" People do whats familiar becouse its a safe bet. I think the people I jump with like doing different formations and putting it together with the jumpers we have. But its no big deal to me if anyone likes it or not I just thought it might be cool to think of different dives and once in a while do them. Sorry to have rocked the boat!D-2626, SCR1999, SCS641, NSCR2350, GW6909 Blue Skies!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
domsdad 0 #6 October 15, 2007 I think it's a great idea. Go with it. I for one used to use names of a formation to help me remember how it builds...what it looks like. After I got into 4-way I'll look at a larger formation and say to myself "oh that looks like a P or the top half of 21. I remember in alot of gear stores they sell two books. One is 2-ways to like 20 ways or something and everything in between. The other book is from 21 ways up to like 60 or 100 ways. There are a ton of formations in these books. It's a light blue colored book but for the life of me I can't remember the name. Sorry. I know somebody out there is going to read this and know the answer. You can probably find it at an online gear store. I'm with ya. Sometimes we get stuck doing the same ol' stuff. Let's color up the day a bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #7 October 16, 2007 Quote I remember in alot of gear stores they sell two books. One is 2-ways to like 20 ways or something and everything in between. The other book is from 21 ways up to like 60 or 100 ways. There are a ton of formations in these books. It's a light blue colored book but for the life of me I can't remember the name. Sorry. I know somebody out there is going to read this and know the answer. You can probably find it at an online gear store. I also remember the blue book of formations, but couldn't find it. However, Square One has the 21-64 one in stock it seems. I bet if you called them they'd find the blue one too. http://www.square1.com/manufacturers/square1/p699.asp#FreefallingTogether2 Here's what they both look like: http://para-concepts.com/Store/images/fft.jpg ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
collinb 0 #8 October 16, 2007 welcome to the world of organizing! keeping jumps you organize new/fresh and achievable are key points in my book. I have jumped with several people over the years that only know how to do 5 or 6 jumps and they stick to those and just add a flake or side body here or there as people come and go. one trick I have tried and it makes it fun and challenging for me is to pick a basic formation, star, compressed, diamonds, donuts, in-out, etc and make that formation the core part of jumps you design organize all day. Just that process will keep you going for 4-5 months without ever repeating anything and it works from 3 - 20+. use the overlap technique for odd numbers as was suggested earlier and you can doodle a 5 -6 jump day in minutes. creating a repository for people to put formation, sequences, whole jumps would be a great thing for people to refer to. Happy to send the bits I create/build if you ever get it started, just pick a format that we can all use without spending a fortune, I use MS powerpoint and PDF the pages to distribute at the DZ. have fun, send me an email if I can help Collin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #9 November 5, 2007 Free Falling Together 1 is no longer in print....I have been searching for it high and low and it isn't around. Para-concepts is trying to get a hold of the copyrite ect but have been unsuccessful as of yet.DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #10 November 5, 2007 QuoteFree Falling Together 1 is no longer in print....I have been searching for it high and low and it isn't around. Para-concepts is trying to get a hold of the copyrite ect but have been unsuccessful as of yet. Try here. They have both volumes listed at least: http://www.tso-d.com/html/video_books.htm ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
