ESL Championships?

[druspork 0]

Are their any teams on this forum going to Spa?

UK has three teams in "A" - Helix, Evolution and my team - I think it's a strong group in this class. I think we have two teams in "AAA" and one in novice, but I'm not sure who they all are.

What about the other European teams?

Dru
[Team] Damn Zebra

[dragon2 0]

Our team just got an invite (rookie class), but I for one can't go; I'm the video judge for our biggest swoop comp that's the same weekend So if my team goes they'll have to use another camera flyer

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dbac 0]

6 teams are coming over from the UK

AAA - Optic

AA - Damn Zebra, Evolution and Helix

Rookies - D4 and Escondido


I'll see you at the bar.


Bri
www.escondido.co.uk

[druspork 0]

I was wondering if Escondido was coming.

Look forward to proping up the bar with you.

Dru
Damn Zebra

[choll15 0]

Hey Dru, and all UK ESL participants...

Fantastic job at the weekend! All UK teams did really well - Especially the 1-2-3 in A class, and 1-2 in rookie. Great stuff.

The Brits must've done well in the overall sword competition with those results, but ESL site is yet to update. Anyone know what happened?
(Apart from enjoying a lot of continental beer!)

Chris

www.southparc.co.uk

[druspork 0]

Hey Chris

What happened - lots of politics.

We [UK - formally dubbed Team GB] were too dominant in rookie and A for many. Complaints that the top two A teams should be in AA [no such class in ESL] or even AAA. Crumbs, can you imagine Damn Zebra doing AAA right now?

There was a complaint, and rookie class were removed from the Spirit points count, otherwise, we would have blitzed it. The Spirit went to Belgium, and actually they are a great bunch. It's a good home for the Spirit if the UK is to be denied. We particularly gelled with Tiramassu.

Check out Helix score in "A" - hooley dooley what a performance. And Evolution finally clicked into gear - from recollection they were 10 points in front of us after 3 rounds?

And our Novices, First and second Escondido, D4, what a bunch of Brit reprobates. Drink as good as they fly.

Despite the politics, only 8 non UK jumpers turned up to the ESL feed back session on Sunday. So much for courage of conviction.

Rumour has it that France and the Scandinavians join next year. AFAIK we dont yet have Portugal, Spain, Italy. Give it time though.

We South park there next year though!

Dru
Damn Zebra

[dbac 0]

Team GB... rocked!

I think it was only a few people grumbling that made most of the noise, the majority were very supportive.(especially when I landed off). The organisers were rightly upset about the sniping and for me Hayabusa (AAA Champs) summed it up with the quote "you can't expect to do 30 training jumps and win Single A". Damn right. There was nothing inappropriate about anything, another country joined ESL and the standard increased, when (if?) France, Italy etc etc join then I'm sure the competitions will be much much closer.

It's a different mentality, when Rookie teams get a 5 or 6 point average in Belgium or Holland they are expected to step up to Single A. In the UK, its closer to double figures before you are expected to move up. What's the point of learning blocks when you can't even do randoms to a decent level?

(I hadn't heard about Rookies removed from the Spirit calculation, I wondered how we didn't win it).

Many good things were said during the feed back session on Sunday morning. I hated the idea when I first heard it but it's now growing on me that the BPA should adopt a 4 tier system instead of the current 3 tier system. Rookies (slightly lower than Juniors), Single A (slightly lower than Inters), Double A (between Inters and Seniors) and Triple A (Seniors). This would help progression amongst the sport, as the leap upto a different class is smaller, meaning you don't get disheartened with low scores.

Anybody got an opinion on this? How do we get this through the BPA for 2006?

But overall, a top weekend, excellent DZ, excellent manifest, excellent judging, excellent results and excellent (free) beer at the awards ceremony!

Congrats to all the teams who took part from every country but especially to Hayabusa and Helix, who starred with performances that blew everyone away.

We'll definately be back there next year if we get an invite.

Bri
www.escondido.co.uk
European Skydiving League Finals Rookie Champions

damn, I love saying that!

[choll15 0]

Great feedback guys, sounds as if Team GB caused a few raised eyebrows!

I guess it's always going to be interesting going against other countries, as their interpretation of which team goes where may be slightly different to ours. Having said that, it's a shame that the rules were modified to exlude teams for being 'too good'.

This time next year, all being well, Helix and Damn will be AAA, and probably good at it too (watching my back here!) and the addition of other countries into the ESL idea can only be a good thing
(If only for different beers!!) Hopefully GB can put a decent showing in all categories.

Well done again, all ESL participants - whatever your nationality. And nice one 'Team GB'!

www.southparc.co.uk

[Nick 0]

Dru

Was the Dutch that won the spirit trophy, and very well deserved it was too. Was a great comp, hopfully it'll help to build the level of European skydiving generally.

Also a big thanks to Willy for organising the event and Spa for hosting (really good DZ).

Nick

Nick
Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW!

[druspork 0]

Some corrections:
1. Dutch won the spirit (refer Nick's post)
2. I dont know exactly when the decission was made to exclude Novice class from the Spirit - may have been before the comp - as such my implication that it was a deliberate ploy is unfair. [Doesnt change the effect but javascript: addTag('crazy') ]

Four categories at the BPA? That's not going to be easy. Insufficient teams at the GPs means the DZ owners dont want it. Several Senior/AAA team reps I spoke with dont want it either - they see it watering down the talent from AAA. Last year when AA was muted it needed Optic and SouthParc to work - they went for the greater challenge of AAA. Next year would need this year's top inter teams - chances are (if they keep going) they will also take the bigger challenge.

Anyway, great comp, great DZ. I'd love an invite back next year too!

Dru

[dbac 0]

Hmmm. see my opinion, is that with Rookies being lower than Juniors (only 4 exits rather than all 16), you'd get more teams entering. Especially if the BPA keeps supplying free coaching at the roadshows, the GP's and the Nationals.

With Single A being slightly lower than Inters, more rookie teams would see a smaller step up. Although the challenge would then be 12 new exits and blocks.

I'll admit I know relatively nothing about FS cause I've only been in the 'dido doing juniors since March so I can't talk for somebody in another situation.

But I can see myself doing Inters for the next 2 years, first year to learn, 2nd year to see how good we can be and then probable not entering anymore competitions. Seniors seems a LONG way away, with a rather large budget, that I'm just not prepared to spend in order to be semi-competitive.

see you at the sibson bar, I'll have the Moet please... hehe

Bri
www.escondido.co.uk
European Skydiving League Rookie CHAMPIONS

[skydude2k 0]

Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents as being in the middle of stuff gives another perspective.

Thanks to everyone for these fine words and congrats. Well done to everyone in team GB for showing the rest of Europe exactly where we are with 4way in the UK and carrying the numerous flags with pride. Let’s use this to help push UK skydiving upwards with the same ferocity of change that we have been seeing in the last few years.

Spa is a beautiful and friendly DZ which was well run and I have to say that (with the exception of the computer screen getting a little ahead of the computer voice) with all the re-jumps, camera flyer contentions and cutaways to mess things up the flow of the competition was amazing. Many other DZ’s struggle to get things going well when everything is fine so a big well done and thank you to the Dudes and Dudettes at SPA.

I believe that the exclusion of the rookie class from the Sprite competition was due to the rookie class being added so late to the competition and it was deemed unfair as some countries could not gather any teams in time.

As for politics/bad vibes. From where I was it seemed to me that lots of people were talking about what only very few people had said. This seemed to make the issue far larger at the time than it was. These situations only have whatever power you give them and I personally did not receive any negative comments directly. Everyone that I spoke to congratulated “HELiX” had only good things to say about the current level of UK jumping and acknowledged that if you want to win then train hard, be committed and if you win then you deserve it. I know there were complaints about the differing standards but I think that Willie put that to bed with his statement made at the start of the forum. The ESL is an evolving thing. It will take time to settle and mature to something that everyone will be happy with. The only complaint that I had regarding the comments by Ettes(Excuse the spelling) during the medal ceremony was acknowledge and dealt with in a satisfactory manner at the forum on the Sunday.

There was a lot of talk about the obvious differing standards in jumping and the classes that teams are in. People are more resistant to change than they might admit. From the number of teams that were at the UK nationals this year there is obviously room to move to a 4 class competition. If this were to happen then the feeling was that ESL would include the AA class. The UK GP’s are slightly different but the attendance at these varies considerably and I think that this has little to do with the classes available to compete in. The only additional expense is another set of medals.

Currently in the UK the move to a AA class from BPA intermediate is not that great. For Southparc and Optic this was possibly a factor? Although I don’t wish to second guess anyone’s decisions. New teams moving from rookie to A class then AA class would face a substantial challenge at reach change before the mind F$&k that is the full AAA class dive pool.

Surely if we have learned anything in the last couple of years it is that the better prepared we leave our existing class the less traumatic/ more enjoyable the step up is. This leads to better performances. Making more teams with more willingness to progress a little further. This ultimately will lead to a far higher standard when people finally decide to move finally to AAA.

I know that there are many people who have an opinion on this but the loudest voice in the debate should be us the competitors. In the past I was not convinced but now believe that the UK is ready for a 4 class competition. This might take a year or two to settle down but it is usually better to “take the hit” of change earlier than later. Now this has the added benefit of making the UK one of the pioneers in helping establishing a European wide view at competition FS.

I was going to sign this post like Brian’s above with “British National Champion (Intermediate)” and European Skydiving Champion (A Class). However my renowned modesty prevented me from doing so.

Cheers and see ya all at Sibson

Doug Mclelland
OC - Team Fusion
A mind like a parachute, tends to work
better when open.

[Zoter 0]

Quote

see you at the sibson bar, I'll have the Moet please... hehe

I think Grant may have a 'dusty' stock of Babycham somewhere........and even thats more than you RW 'dawgs' can expect from the bar....
Good going at the ESL champs guys.......

[druspork 0]

Interestingly, I've gone the other way - used to support 4 classes but now I'm not convinced. I would go with the flow though.

Would Helix tackle AA next year?

Anyway congrats again Doogie - UK and European A Class Champion.

Dru