Can you psycho pack a Spectre?

[MathmatiC 0]

I am relatively new to the sport of skydiving. I recently purchased a new spectre 190. To be honest, handling that new PD zero-p is a pain in the ass. I am still having a little trouble trying to propack that canopy. It is easier for me to psycho pack. Which brings me to my question. Has anybody heard or know of any problems with psycho packing a Spectre 190? I asked the packer/rigger at my home dropzone and she said she didn't even know how to psycho pack. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
MAthuS

[afreedman 0]

I would not recommend psycho packing any canopy. I have packed 3000+ main canopies and have never had a problem PRO packing. I do not like the psycho pack because of the extra wear on the canopy and lines. When PRO packing you are orienting the fabric in the proper position and will reduce the wear on the canopy. If you are having trouble handling the Zero-P fabric, I recommend asking a packer at your DZ how he/she handles the material. If you have any questions I can give you some good pointers. I jump a Spectre 135 and find the openings are very good when PRO packed.

[MathmatiC 0]

"I do not like the psycho pack because of the extra wear on the canopy and lines."
How exactly does psycho packing cause extra wear and tear on the canopy?

[FallnAngel 0]

Hi -
I bought a new Spectre 170 back in March, and I was really struggling to get it packed too. After the first few tries, I started looking for better & easier ways to get the job done. There was a thread here a while back that offered some good hints, here's the link to it:
New canopy...@#$%!
I follow the instructions from the webpage for using folds to dress the canopy down to size before making the s-folds. But I also follow the other tip from the thread where you make the 2nd s-fold first, get that into the bag, then tuck the first s-fold in between. This has worked *great* for me every time with not only my Spectre, but also my hubby's Safire. Great openings every time, and I've cut my packing time from about 40 minutes of sweaty struggling, down to about 10-15.
Oh, one more thing, I just leave the nose hanging - no rolls or anything - and pull the center cell out slightly. I roll the tail 3 times.
Hope this helps you some!
Tame ZP's,
Karen
P.S.
As far as Psycho packing the Spectre, I have read that you get super snivelly openings that way. The Spectre already opens slowly, so personally I stick with variations on the pro-pack.

[Kirils 1]

I think the Psycho-pack is a safe packing procedure. BUT
there are a few canopies that the old reliable pro-pack seems best. From my observations and experience,I would not suggest the psycho-pack for F-111 fabric chutes, the PD Vengence, Jedi, or other air-lock chutes.
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[Kirils 1]

I think the Psycho-pack is a safe packing procedure. BUT
there are a few canopies that the old reliable pro-pack seems best. From my observations and experience,I would not suggest the psycho-pack for F-111 fabric chutes, the PD Vengence, Jedi, or other air-lock chutes. I know of one jumper that Psycos her Spectre with no problems. Make sure
you have a bridle extension if needed...
Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability...

[Zennie 0]

Quote

I think the Psycho-pack is a safe packing procedure.

That's what I've heard. I know one of our very respected riggers advocates it. But a friend of mine psycho-packed for years and now is very adamant that they're dangerous. Why? Because he apparently got his back broken on a brutal opening (psycho-packed Sabre).
He's absolutely convinced it's the psycho-pack. I can't help but wonder if it could have been some other factor. Such as line dump, dumping in a track or not having the slider all the way down (or a combination of these).
So this is news to me because everything I've heard is that psycho-packs soften the opening. Has anyone every heard of a psycho-pack increasing the likelihood of a hard opening?
------------
Blue Skies!
Zennie

[afreedman 0]

When rolling the canopy as such in the psycho pack you are creating extra friction between the lines and the canopy fabric. This is on the lines above the slider stops. The canopy opens slower in a psycho pack because the fabric is rubbing against itself trying to find the proper place for opening. This is what causes "extra wear on the canopy and lines."

[screwbag 0]

I have worked as a packer at my home DZ for quite some time now and have also been training as a rigger...the DZO prefers his rig to be psycho packed as well as the lead videographer...i myself see no reason for "increased wear" on your canopy. tests done on the psycho pack have shown that the only problem with the pack job is that if proper care is not taken the risk of line over is increased by about 20%...this risk increase is more noticeable on highly elliptical canopies. one must just take extra care to keep the lines to the center and not let your c and d lines get near the nose....i will continue to pack my rig and others (by request ;)) in the psycho pack...if you are not to keen on psycho pack..look up the wolmari pack method...kinda like a pro pack but easier to handle...

[MathmatiC 0]

Thank you for you inputs. They are much appreciated.
MathuS-

[Kris 0]

With regards to the way I sycho-pack, the only difference between a psycho-pack and a PRO-pack is that once I cocoon the canopy and roll the tail I:
1. Lay the canopy on the ground upside down (tail up).
2. Squeeze out the air
3. Fold canopy in thirds
4. Roll up like a sleeping bag until the roll is sitting on top of the slider, keeping tension on the fabric so lines do not slip.
It's that simple. The bag comes off the canopy, the canopy un-rolls, the tail unrolls and inflation begins.
I don't have a lot of pack jobs under my belt, just 80+ psycho-packs on my Sabre 210, 20+ psycho Packs on other various Sabres, a few psycho Packs on differing F-111 canopies and about 8 psycho-packs on different ellipticals.
I've never had any damage done to my canopy with it nor on others. The key is keeping the roll tight and making sure that the lines aren't shifting when you roll the canopy up. You should be watching what you are doing to your lines wile dressing and S-folding on a PRO-pack as well.
If it's good enough for George Galloway to recommend for his Precision Aerodynamics canopies and good enough for Icarus Canopies to suggest as their recommended method for most of their canopies, it is good enough for me.
That said, there are some canopies that should not be psycho packed... The Cobalt doesn't seem to like it much and it isn't recommended for ultra-high performance canopies like the EXtremes.
The big keys are a tight roll and the use of a bridle extension on the top of the canopy. I have had nothing but consistant, on-heading openings with it and the other jumpers at my DZ trust me to pack with it. I'll use it on my new elliptical until someone comes out with something better or faster.
Also, if you don't like PRO-packing but are squeemish about psycho-packing, check out the Wolmari Pack . It is a tamer way of PRO-packing and doesn't require you to do so much stuffing under the canopy, shifting your lines around and is a bit easier to get into the bag.
Just my $0.02
Kris

[shellm1 0]

question: what is a phsycho pack? is it the same as a trash pack??

[Lindsey 0]

Nope....check out www.icaruscanopies.com. You can find in there instructions for the psycho-pack. You may have to open a link to one of their canopies....I know it's in the Extrme pages.....

[trmnljnky 0]

I have a spectre 190, and started psycho packing it. I have been getting more consistant openings, and it is a lot easier to bag.
EFS,
Byron