First Cutaway Yesterday

[Tolgak 0]

Yesterday, on my 41st jump and packjob #10 (I think), I had a bag lock which resulted in the obvious necessity to cut away and pull reserve. After recovering all the gear, some of the staff at DeLand looked over it to see what could have been the problem. Some said that it could have been my pilot chute being caught in my burble, though it looked to others and to me that my lines and canopy weren't stowed very well. In any case, I'm not as concerned about why it happened (I am more than willing to ensure that I do not make the same packing mistakes again) as I am my response to the incident.

During the malfunction I felt no fear and only a slight rush to pull my handles. Afterward, I was barely affected by the possibility of what could have happened. Is it normal for cutaways to be so indifferent toward a high-speed malfunction? It isn't a normal occurrence by any means for my life to be in danger and while I've had serious emotional issues throughout all of my past, I thought I pretty much got over most of them by now.

How did you react to your cutaways after they happened (if they ever did) and do I have a problem for not being affected or is it a non-issue?

-Tolga K.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[757Fixer 0]

I think it's normal for some people in relatively extreme, or very bad situations, to feel somewhat indifferent about it. When I broke my neck dirt biking 2 years ago I remember my very first thoughts were "well this sucks, can I get back to my truck where my friends are?'. I'm fine now, but that really sucked.

[pinkfairy 0]

You are trained to deal with a malfunction, that means that it isn't necessarily such a high stress situation as you might think it is before you do it.

When I had my first cutaway just recently, everything went smooth after I'd decided to chop: I remember thinking in the second freefall: "Not to worry, I've got a parachute!" , and I never felt safer than under my Smart Reserve ("Wow, this thing has a great flare, I'm gonna stand up this!"). It wasn't really scary.

Finding the reason for the malfunction and preventing it from happening again is the more important thing here. Every year there are fatalities that result from incorrect or too late response to malfunctions, but they wouldn't have the problem to start with if they didn't have a malfunction.

Congratulations on your successful cutaway!

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[Stuntbabex 0]

I wasn't too affected by my first cutaway. I felt ready for it. Although mine wasnt a high speed mal like yours. Ive had nightmares about bag locks.

[Baksteen 84]

My first reserve was high speed as well.
I was in the saddle at 1000 feet.

The significance of that didn't sink in until hours afterwards.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[popsjumper 2]

First, you mentioned "bag lock" and then staff offered "pilot chute being caught in my burble" (pilot chute hesitation)...two totally different problems.

If you were able to say, "though it looked to others and to me that my lines and canopy weren't stowed very well" then evidently the d-bag was still in the container and that indicates another problem all together...a PCIT.

Which was it really?

Did you see the problem? What did YOU see?

The discrepancies in your description raise questions about malfunction knowledge.

All in all, you did what you did and lived...the lesson learned could be, "What a great confidence-builder! I CAN handle things! WooooHoooo!"


My first cutaway pissed me off. I was mad...very mad saying to myself, "Damn! SOB! 50 bucks...freakin' 50 bucks". True story.

(re-pack cost)

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Tolgak 0]

I didn't see anything. I didn't really try to look at it. I went by feel (meaning I panicked and forgot to look), and it felt way too long for the canopy to open. It was a good 2 seconds of waiting with no opening.

After cutting and pulling reserve, I watched where the bag (slowed by pilot chute) and other parts fell and we went to pick them up after I landed.

The bag's lines looked slightly more sloppy than when I put them in, likely due to my excessive efforts in trying to pack it into the container. As far as I know, nobody came up with a definitive answer to why the canopy didn't open. It was all speculation and I'm just reporting the various things I heard them say.

One of the staff pulled on my lines to show that the pilot chute definitely would have had enough force to pull the lines from the stows. However, from what I felt, it was pretty clear that the pilot chute was out and inflated. I knew the bag had come out because I felt the change in the pressure on my back and was somewhat lifted from my shoulders when it happened. There was a noticeable difference in fall rate both at the start of the malfunction and after the cutaway.

When I next talk to the dz I will see if they came up with a good answer.

If it was just a stuck pin, it doesn't seem like the bag would have been released if I cut away.


I too was really pissed when I pulled reserve. I let out a nice, hearty "FUUUUUUUUCK!!!" at the opening... because the first thing that entered my mind was the potential cost of everything I would have to replace. I also remember being offered aid when I was putting my canopy into the bag (that I refused) and was angry at myself for not taking that offer. I was also planning another jump that day, which I had to cancel because of these new costs.

I will return this weekend to continue jumping and getting RW skills in, but I will sadly have to jump less because I have to replace a cable and pay for a reserve packjob.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[popsjumper 2]

OK...I got a better picture now.

I'm going to step out on a limb here and hope that I'm not stepping on your instructor's toes.

What was your deployment altitude?

What we teach students is that, after the deployment, if you do not feel the rotation to feet-to-earth in 1-2 seconds, look over your right shoulder to see what the problem is. I believe that most schools, by far and a way the majority, teach that. Check with the instructors at your DZ about that.

If you look, you may see:
-Bag lock
-PCIT
-Pilot chute hesitation
-Nothing at all

Some schools teach the KISS principle...whatever the mal, cutaway and deploy your reserve.

Some schools teach:
-Bag lock - cutaway and deploy your reserve
-PCIT - deploy the reserve
-Pilot chute hesitation - slightly twist your body to get air across your back (yes, slightly is a general term and does not tell specifically how much to twist. Get an instructor to demonstrate for you).
-Nothing at all - deploy the reserve

Key point here is to look. Given sufficient altitude, you may have saved yourself from a cutaway situation had it been a PC hesitation.

And, in the case of PC hesitation, did you throw the PC away or was it a soft toss?
(Assuming of course that you are using a throw-out sytem.)


Again, you walked away...you now have a story to tell your grandchildren..."No shit, there I was...."

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Tolgak 0]

I forget the deployment altitude. I should have mentioned earlier: I was on a 3-way with one of the instructors and another student, and the instructor was the one who called off the dive. He did it right as I was about to check the altimeter, but I figured that since he was waving us off, it we were low and it would have been better to just separate and pull rather than waste the extra second looking at the altimeter. I made an effort for a quick glance but I can't say anything other than it looked like it was somewhere higher than 3k.

I did have plenty of time to do the look and everything, and that's what everyone tells me I should have done. However, the thought process went something like "falling too fast, don't have enough time, cut, pull pull pull"

After the reserve opened I found myself at about 1700 feet. I don't think it would have been worth the effort to troubleshoot, considering my packjobs still take around 1000 feet to open (trying to get it down to 500).

I don't think it was a weak PC pullout. I have long arms and a really strong throw.

Something else I hd in mind: I read a discussion here about how low-timers shouldn't have soft handles for the reserve. I think that's total BS. The cutaway handle only took a second to grab and pull. The reserve handle took me a good 4 seconds (at least) to get my fingers through and to pull. It sticks so close to the body that it takes effort to get a hold of it. I don't care to wait that long next time and will be getting soft handles whenever I get around to buying a rig.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[Baksteen 84]

I wasn't there so I'll leave the discussion about the reserve itself to the more experienced people.

But congrats on your cutaway!

I was wondering though,

* Which reserve procedure were you taught?

* What are the pros and cons of a soft reserve handle according to you?

Keep asking questions, both of yourself and your instructors

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Tolgak 0]

I don't recall anyone telling me to do this, but when I check my handles, I do little flicks with my hand to symbolize pulling them out.

They taught me upon opening canopy to go belly, wait 3 seconds, look over the shoulder to see what's there. If there's a problem, troubleshoot it if it's solvable and above your decision altitude (for cut away). Ride it down if it's a low-speed but too low, cut away if it's both not solvable and high-speed.

To pull the handles, look cutaway, grab cutaway, look reserve, pull cutaway, grab reserve, pull reserve.

Disadvantages to soft handle: can't completely wrap your hand around it until peeled off from harness. Even so, there's no way a closed circle with your fingers can guarantee a complete grip of the handle like it would with a d-ring.

Advantages: Easier to see, get my hands around, and keep a grip on. Even if you can't guarantee a grip on it, your thumb alone can easily peel it off just by pushing down on the top of it. All of this can be done because it sticks out a little bit more than a d-ring. It's much more difficult and time consuming to get fingers into the d-ring (especially with gloves on), which pretty much MUST be done if you want to remove the d-ring from the harness.

It took me one hand to pull the soft handle. It took me two hands just to get my thumb into the d-ring.

The time difference alone during my malfunction is enough to be sold on soft handles. I rehearse the procedure often enough not to get confused between the two. I don't see any benefit of a D-Ring that can outweigh the benefits of a soft handle after this experience. Maybe some of you can enlighten me.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[dks13827 3]

I must say that I can think of 2 who could not get their reserve pillow pulled. That bothers me, a lot.

[Baksteen 84]

Sounds like you've weighed the advantages and disadvantages against each other. Good!

{attached} is my reserve handle. Does it look like yours at all?

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Tolgak 0]

I went jumping today and have determined without a doubt that if the issue was my fault, it was improper stowage of the lines. The problem was fixed, they are packed nice and neatly now, and now I can work on getting the canopies neater as I fold them for the bag.

I talked to plenty of people about the handles, including instructors, and they have no beefs with a soft reserve handle. It seems like a simple issue. If we trust a soft handle for our cut-away, what difference does it make for a reserve? The force it takes to pull out that pin feels similar to the cutaway force (not much at all). I would not attribute a lack of reserve pull to soft handles.

A side note: Did a hop 'n pop from 13,500. It made for a great end of the day.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[in2jumping 0]

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I too was really pissed when I pulled reserve. I let out a nice, hearty "FUUUUUUUUCK!!!" at the opening... because the first thing that entered my mind was the potential cost of everything I would have to replace.

I remember some guy riding a stuck/jammed pilot chute down under 1000 feet because said he was worried about the cost of a reserve repack and would not be able to jump again that day.

Your ass/life is on the line up there last thing you should be worried about is the cost.

[grannyinthesky 0]

Quote

Quote

I too was really pissed when I pulled reserve. I let out a nice, hearty "FUUUUUUUUCK!!!" at the opening... because the first thing that entered my mind was the potential cost of everything I would have to replace.

I remember some guy riding a stuck/jammed pilot chute down under 1000 feet because said he was worried about the cost of a reserve repack and would not be able to jump again that day.

Your ass/life is on the line up there last thing you should be worried about is the cost.

I had my second reserve ride yesterday and the cost of having to replace things was not even considered. All my attention was focused on pulling handles........

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[Baksteen 84]

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I talked to plenty of people about the handles, including instructors, and they have no beefs with a soft reserve handle. It seems like a simple issue. If we trust a soft handle for our cut-away, what difference does it make for a reserve?

Let's agree to disagree then... At least you have given the issue a lot of thought, that is clear from your posts.

What I was getting at however, is that the rig you jumped could have one of these smaller D-handles, thus explaining the difficulty you had hooking your thumb through it. OTOH, as a student I experienced something like it myself, when I foolishly held on to the cutaway handle instead of doing what I was taught, wasting a few valuable seconds trying to grab my reserve handle. I was merely curious.

Have fun jumping.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Tolgak 0]

The thought of the cost entered my mind only after pulling the handles. Had it existed before, I would have held on to them.

The D-ring is from a rig designed for students. It's of average size.

And no more having fun jumping. The only other rig I can use got a tear in the canopy some time after my last jump. On top of getting a reserve canopy packed, I may have to pay for a patch. The setback will be about a month, because even after the rigs are fixed and the reserve repacked, the money I'll have to pay for them will prevent me from jumping.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?