Swooping limitations (was: IL fatality)

[Scrumpot 1]

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I am still angry at his decisions.

Although that may be, who then would be angry at you, if you went in someday jumping?

You don't want to see or be involved ever, in a skydiving fatality? Then get out of skydiving. Seriously. Because even your very own potential fatality in skydiving is a very REAL possibility every time you step out of that aircraft (or as we have learned again just recently, even just by being IN it ), whether you swoop or not.

The only way to "ban" skydiving fatalities altogether, would be to ban skydiving! There are plenty of people out there who already think probably that YOU (even if you don't swoop) are crazy enough "just" by skydiving in of itself. Think about that, and be careful what you call for "bans" on. You call for a ban on swooping, and swooping stops but fatalities still happen (and they WILL), then what is next?

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[anita 0]

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You don't want to see or be involved ever, in a skydiving fatality? Then get out of skydiving. Seriously. Because even your very own potential fatality in skydiving is a very REAL possibility every time you step out of that aircraft (or as we have learned again just recently, even just by being IN it ), whether you swoop or not.

The only way to "ban" skydiving fatalities altogether, would be to ban skydiving! There are plenty of people out there who already think probably that YOU (even if you don't swoop) are crazy enough "just" by skydiving in of itself. Think about that, and be careful what you call for "bans" on. You call for a ban on swooping, and swooping stops but fatalities still happen (and they WILL), then what is next?

Hmmmm ... does it accomplish anything productive to jump in the guy's case (mraardvark/Charles, that is) and twist his words around? He's just a guy who's upset, and he blurted out some advice saying, "don't swoop" — he didn't say anything about "banning" it.

He also didn't say anything about "banning" skydiving fatalities. That was some creative re-phrasing which didn't accurately reflect what he said. Fatalities aren't something that can be "banned" of course (as you acknowledged), but there ARE behaviors and activities which CAN be banned so that we can start minimizing the number of fatalities, and eliminate — as much as possible — the ones that lead to the multiple fatalities, such as taking out other people in the air (canopy collisions prior to landing) or on the ground (collisions upon landing). Most of the time, such incidents involve hook turns. If we get serious about restricting where hook turns can be done (note that i did NOT say "ban them"), then we will definitely see a downward trend in those fatalities. If there's a designated area for swooping and hook turns, then that's where people can do 'em. Otherwise, they can't do 'em. Simple as that. And please, no whining about "what if there isn't a designated area for swooping on my drop zone?" That would be like whining about why there isn't a drop zone in your back yard, or a racetrack in your city where you could drive 200 mph. Either make it happen at your drop zone, or drive to one that has it.

pax,
<3 anita

[Scrumpot 1]

You are right. He didn't say ban, I did. That's also why I put the word ban when I used it in quotation marks. It just seemed (to me ...could most definitely be mistaken) that the poster was making a pretty definitive statement that "the answer" was not to swoop, is all. I know it may seem simplistic, but if that is to be the case, then "the answer" to skydiving fatalities quite simply would also be then, to not skydive at all. Seeing as that is not an option, wouldn't the better solution be to learn the mistakes from the incident itself in an attempt so as not to repeat it (the incident, not necessarily the activity, in total)?

That anyway, was my only intended point. In rereading my own post, I suppose it can be taken as "harsh", but that certainly was not my intent. I can both sympathize, and empathize with what this poster is going through, because indeed I have been there. So for any completely non-intentional seeming to jump on anybody's individual "case", I do so sincerely, and humbly, apologize.

BSBD,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[homer 0]

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but there ARE behaviors and activities which CAN be banned so that we can start minimizing the number of fatalities, and eliminate — as much as possible — the ones that lead to the multiple fatalities, such as taking out other people in the air (canopy collisions prior to landing) or on the ground (collisions upon landing). Most of the time, such incidents involve hook turns.

Now I have an incident that happened to me back in March while I was at Z-Hills. I wont name names or point fingers. This is one of those, "being cool/stupid could have not only hurt you but an innocent jumper as well". The innocent jumper was me.

I have a great respect for swoopers as I think it takes a lot of balls to pull off a good swoop and I know just how fast things can go to shit if you are to low or an object is in your swoop path. That is why I give swoopers their space and stop walking in the landing are when I see one coming in for a landing. In this incident I did just that when I saw this jumper setting up to make his turn. Now this jumper levels out some 40 yards from me (still just standing and giving him his room) and after making eye contact makes a little turn directly towards me (still just standing there with canopy over shoulder) and proceeds to stick his foot out as if pretending to kick me in the chest as he passed within 3 feet of me. His swoop continued for another 30 yards so he still had a lot of speed going when he swooped bye. This jumper deliberately while surfing the ground made a course change directly towards me then attempted to scare me by pretending to kick at me. If his judgment had been off or I had jumped in any way we could have had a collision resulting in BOTH of us getting hurt. I will admit he had a nice swoop but his recklessness of flying at someone he didn’t know not only put himself in danger but he put my life in danger as well. I’ll be dambed if someone’s recklessness puts my life in danger.

CSA #699 Muff #3804