dreamdancer 0 #1 September 25, 2011 the ship has left the harbour. let's hope it gets to its destination through the stormy seas... QuoteExcellency, I have the profound honor, on behalf of the Palestinian people, to submit this application of the State of Palestine for admission to membership in the United Nations. This application for membership is being submitted based on the Palestinian people's natural, legal and historic rights and based on United Nations General Assembly resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947 as well as the Declaration of Independence of the State of Palestine of 15 November 1988 and the acknowledgement by the General Assembly of this Declaration in resolution 43/177 of 15 December 1988. In this connection, the State of Palestine affirms its commitment to the achievement of a just, lasting and comprehensive resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict based on the vision of two-States living side by side in peace and security, as endorsed by the United Nations Security Council and General Assembly and the international community as a whole and based on international law and all relevant United Nations resolutions. For the purpose of this application for admission, a declaration made pursuant to rule 58 of the Provisional Rules of Procedure of the Security Council and rule 134 of the Rules of Procedure of the General Assembly is appended to this letter. I should be grateful if you would transmit this letter of application and the declaration to the Presidents of the Security Council and the General Assembly as soon as possible. Mahmoud Abbas President of the State of Palestine Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/application-of-the-state-of-palestine-for-admission-to-membership-in-the-united-nations-1.386590stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #2 September 25, 2011 Abbas said that the Palestinians "extend our hands to the Israeli government and the Israeli people." .... (but) On Friday afternoon, Abbas said he was adamant about not recognizing Israel as the Jewish state. "They talk to us about the Jewish state, but I respond to them with a final answer: We shall not recognize a Jewish state," Abbas said in a meeting with some 200 senior representatives of the Palestinian community in the US, shortly before taking the podium and delivering a speech at the United Nations General Assembly. .... Meanwhile, Hamas said Friday that Palestinians should liberate their land, not beg for recognition at the United Nations, firmly rejecting President Abbas' quest for statehood. Speaking hours before Abbas was due to ask formally that the UN recognize a Palestinian state, senior Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said this would not bring independence. "Our Palestinian people do not beg for a state. ...States are not built upon UN resolutions. States liberate their land and establish their entities," Haniyeh said. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4126571,00.html I don't know which is doing more damage to the Palestinian people/cause, Abbas or Hamas. At least Hamas plays it's cards face up. Abbas says one thing to the world and quite another behind closed doors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #3 September 25, 2011 _____________________________________________________ According to the prevailing legal standard, the 1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, a "state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: a) a permanent population; b) a defined territory; c) government; and d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states." Both the Hamas-controlled Palestinian entity in Gaza and the rival Fatah-governed Palestinian entity in the West Bank can be said to meet all four of these criteria of the law of statehood. The one on which the United Nations will vote does not. But Fatah, the PA, and the broader PLO do not seek statehood for this West Bank entity that arguably could meet the legal requirements. Their minimum demand is a state that includes Gaza along with the West Bank, the eastern part of Jerusalem, and all the other parts of mandatory Palestine that were under Jordanian and Egyptian control before 1967. Fatah, the PA, and the PLO are demanding title to lands and authority over populations they do not control, being as they are under the rule of Hamas and Israel. Mahmoud Abbas is presenting himself as the president of the Palestine that is pressing the claim in the U.N. General Assembly, but he is not considered to be the president anymore by Hamas, the largest political party in the putative state. And Hamas has Palestine's own laws on its side in this dispute. Abbas was elected in 2005 to serve until January 2009, so his term has expired. In 2009, he unilaterally extended his term for another year until January 2010 (an extension that also has expired), but that extension did not adhere to Article 65 of the Palestinian constitution, the Basic Law. _____________________________________________________ http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/08/03/the_palestinians_imaginary_state"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #4 September 26, 2011 Ultimatly the peace will be made by the people not by the polititions and the governments will follow. This is worth watching. http://youtu.be/lggPqu525GgWhen an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #5 September 26, 2011 QuoteHave the Palestinians ever had a country? If yes, where? If not, why should they now? Do you think the Kurds should have their own country? If not, what makes them different? Which block of Palestinians will negotiate with Israel. They're not exactly a unified government across Gaza, west bank, and Golan. Do you suggest they be forced into one disconnected country? Should they get three countries? If Israel pulls back and gives up claim to the land, shouldn't the land go back to it's previous owners instead of forming a new country? Still waiting for your answers. Also, do you think Abbas should be considered the leader of Palestine? Do you think the Hamas "government" in Gaza wants him speaking for them?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Niki1 1 #6 September 26, 2011 The state of Israel was created be the United Nations in 1948. The UN took some land from Jordan and some from Syria and made it a "homeland" for the Jewish peiple. It had been their home a few thousand years ago. Jews had had some really hard times over the previous 15 or 20 years. Some sympathy was understandable. Unless you were one of those whose family had lived there for many generations and now were in Israel. The hour that the UN resolution went into effect, the new state was attecked by all it's neighbors. Israel had to fight for it's life in the field and in the capitols of whatever country that might help them. They managed to hang on and stay alive and even prosper. Palistine was the name of that whole area when the Romans were the big guys on the block. Now the Palistineans seem to asking for the same thing the that was given to the Jews. They may have to fight for what is given to them the way the Jews did. I hope not but I'm afraid it will be so. If they could buy and sell to one another and become economicly united, that would indead be a wonderful world. But something would be needed before that could happen. In the words of that philosopher, Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?" That IS the hard part.Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #7 September 26, 2011 QuoteThe state of Israel was created be the United Nations in 1948. The UN took some land from Jordan and some from Syria and made it a "homeland" for the Jewish peiple. This is not quite accurate. That land was part of the British Mandate for Palestine, had been since 1917 and was not under the direct control of either Syria or Transjordan. Prior to being part of the British Mandate it was ruled over by the Ottoman empire."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Niki1 1 #8 September 27, 2011 Quote Quote The state of Israel was created be the United Nations in 1948. The UN took some land from Jordan and some from Syria and made it a "homeland" for the Jewish peiple. This is not quite accurate. That land was part of the British Mandate for Palestine, had been since 1917 and was not under the direct control of either Syria or Transjordan. Prior to being part of the British Mandate it was ruled over by the Ottoman empire. My mistake. Actually, I wasn't mistaken, I was just wrong. Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #9 September 27, 2011 Unfortunately Pres. Obama has said he will veto it. Wonder why we are hated? reason 32659874125365 We will blindly veto anything that Israel does not like. That has been the case every time. Lets not even get in to how fucked the idea of a permanent member with ultimate veto power is on something that is suppose to have some democracy or a sense of justice.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #10 September 27, 2011 The only reason the Jews believe they have a claim to the land is based on Religion not facts. That’s what makes it so retarded. They believe it is there land because of the bible, There were Jews, Muslims, Christians all sort of people living on the land thousands of years ago, there were even people before they had a religion living in the area. The idea that one of these groups all of sudden has more rights then every one else is retarded and based on mythology. The only reason it is tolerated is because of the horrible events of the holocaust. We normally condemn occupations, apartheid, governments who murder thousands of innocents people, Target assassinations etc I can go on forever on all the things we condemn others for but give Israel a free pass on. Its not fare and makes us look like ass holes with an agenda that’s not based on facts, logic, or justice. Oh by the way the lord said Hawaii is mine. QuoteZionism definition The belief that Jews should have their own nation; Jewish nationalism. Zionism gained much support among Jews and others in the early twentieth century, and the hoped-for nation was established in the late 1940s in Palestine, as the state of Israel. Zionism is opposed by most Arabs. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #11 September 27, 2011 Quote Lets not even get in to how fucked the idea of a permanent member with ultimate veto power is on something that is suppose to have some democracy or a sense of justice. You seem to be in full out form this morning, ranting at full blast. Probably not going to lead to real conversation, though it's obvious you don't really want it. Though perhaps you could answer Kennedy's question about Abbas' illegitimate authority as ruler of faux Palestine. Yes, it's a bit ridiculous that the UN granted the 5 winners of WWII permament veto power. But it would be no less fucked up if the UN allowed a popularity vote to replace diplomacy, and reward an entity with no interest in peace. Tyranny of the mob is only a pleasant idea to the mob. And let's not talk about the joke that is the human rights committee. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #12 September 28, 2011 Darius, a key element in democracy is that the majority must not use it inherit power and protect the rights of the minority. in the UN, Israel is an automatic minority with 50+ Arab and Muslim countries. You have it all wrong, the US veto is the only thing that keeps the UN relevant. without it, 99% of the UN's resolutions will be against Israel while ignoring the rest of the world (just check the statistics of the UN Human rights council in which the US does not have a Veto right). Without the US Veto the UN would be even a bigger joke. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #13 September 28, 2011 QuoteThe only reason the Jews believe they have a claim to the land is based on Religion not facts. Wrong. It is based on a lot of facts, history and over 3000 years of a deep cultural connection. there were always Jews in this land and even when most were exiled. they always face Jerusalem when praying and pray to be back. Remind me where Muslims face when they pray? How many times in Jerusalem mentioned in the Quran? It's not mythology, it's fact, based by historic evidence, real sites on the ground and a deep cultural heritage that links the nation to the land. By the way. many (if not most) of the Arabs you accept as the "original people" actually migrated to this land in the 18th century (and yes, this is fact too). Does it mean it's not their home now? no. but stop trying to claim that it is not the Jewish homeland. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #14 September 28, 2011 Quote in the UN, Israel is an automatic minority. this is the same for every country at the un - duh...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #15 September 28, 2011 Quotestop trying to claim that it is not the Jewish homeland. it is a bit of land that has not or ever been the jewish - 'homeland' - this is just historical drivel bit like the druids saying that stonehenge is theirs or parts of england... it is the jewish homeland now because the un agreed to that. all the un has to do now is agree the same deal for palestine and we can all forget about a weird religious cult with a persecution complex...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
